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joker
12-10-2009, 06:38 AM
Hi,

I am currently trying to search all words with maqqeph / maqqep / maqqef / maqeph / maqep / maqef. First I tried a search with WTM ".*-*", but I only got 259 hits, and forms with more than one maqqeph have not been found (for example 2Sam 15,2).

A search with WTM ".*-*-*" put out a message "cannot be found". The same with WTT.

Any ideas how to get all maqqeph in the Old Testament?

Thanks in advance,

Joker

bobvenem
12-11-2009, 09:24 AM
(NOTE: I have forgotten most of the Hebrew I learned in G-school)

Joker,

It appears the maqqeph is treated as punctuation, not as a character. This may be the problem. The hits you are getting (I got 220) may have more to do with the asterisk character doubling as a particular vowel point in Hebrew searches.

If anyone else has an idea, have at it.

Bob

Greg Ward
12-11-2009, 10:51 AM
This thread might get you close:

http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294&highlight=punctuation

bobvenem
12-11-2009, 09:18 PM
The attached file, Maqqeph.qf, should get you started.

joker
12-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Hi,

first I would like to thank you kindly for your work! The qf-file is a big help, and I found a lot of maqqeph-verses in the Hebrew Old Testament :-)

Unfortunately I don't understand how this search works. I never tried the graphical search manager, and so I see 4 squares with signs in it, that I can't explore, but the result is really cool. Is there anyone, who can tell me, how this search works?

Again: Thank you for your work.

Joker

bobvenem
12-14-2009, 05:55 PM
Basically, it looks for any two words (the blue boxes with the asterisks) that are separated by a maqqeph (the ordering box). Double-click the ordering box and you'll find that it requires the custom punctuation "-", and that it must be exactly between the two words (no intervening characters or spaces).

If you wanted to make this work for double maqqeph constructions, try the attached query.

David Kummerow
12-14-2009, 11:03 PM
To tell you the truth, I don't know why maqqef is tagged as punctuation. It actually functions as part of the accentual system and represents a prosodic clitic. Maqqef should be retagged as a separate accent so that it is searchable in the normal manner.

Regards,
David.

joker
12-15-2009, 03:32 AM
Thank you again for your answers.

I think, it is okay, to tag the maqqeph as punctuation, because the Masoretes did so. In the Aleppo Codex for example - the oldest codex with punctuation - you can find the maqqeph; in scriptures without punctuation you cannot.

So it is a bit hard to find the maqqeph with a bibleworks-search, but it is right to tag the maqqeph like this. And: Who will ever search this again? 1 in a million per year maybe :-D

Thank you,

Joker

bobvenem
12-15-2009, 05:45 AM
One oddity with the double maqqeph query: it finds TRIPLE maqqephs by treating them as consecutive DOUBLE maqqephs. Strange.

Sansom48
12-15-2009, 10:46 AM
Hi,

first I would like to thank you kindly for your work! The qf-file is a big help, and I found a lot of maqqeph-verses in the Hebrew Old Testament :-)

Unfortunately I don't understand how this search works. I never tried the graphical search manager, and so I see 4 squares with signs in it, that I can't explore, but the result is really cool. Is there anyone, who can tell me, how this search works?

Again: Thank you for your work.

Joker


I am always a learner when it comes to BBW, it is just such a large program with so many capabilities. unfortunatly one of the main uses of BBW the GSE or Graphical Search Engine, is one that I have never truly studied at length, however, if there is one thing that I do know, it is that the help guides in BBW are phenomenal, I am looking at the help file for GSE and it looks fairly complete. Some helpful tips also were in the "classroom tips" that they now send out, I believe it was section 1:12 here is a link here. (http://bibleworks.com/classroom/1_12/index.html)
I hope that I understood your question correctly.

Peace in Christ,
Chris.

David Kummerow
12-15-2009, 10:22 PM
I think, it is okay, to tag the maqqeph as punctuation, because the Masoretes did so. In the Aleppo Codex for example - the oldest codex with punctuation - you can find the maqqeph; in scriptures without punctuation you cannot.
I'd be interested to know if there codexes that have accents but lack maqqef? Do you have any details on this?

Thanks,
David.

bkMitchell
12-15-2009, 11:31 PM
I'd be interested to know if there codexes that have accents but lack maqqef? Do you have any details on this?


David, By 'scriptures without punctuation' I assume Joker meant scrolls rather than Codices. However, no codex and no printed Bible uses the Maqqef identically in ever passage. I don't have a Snaith Tanakh on me at the moment but I recall it used a Maqqef in the first chapter of Genesis in a place that the Koren Tanakh, BHS, and Breuer's Tanakh didn't.