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View Full Version : Search of the Imperative, "hear."



Sansom48
11-12-2009, 11:12 AM
I am hoping that this is an easy question, I feel like I should know how to do this search but for some reason I don't. I am trying to run a search of the word, "שׁמע" I would like all the occurrences of this word in the imperative. I would then like to be able to look at all those cases in the KWIC to see the phrases that typically follow after the word.

Thank You in advance.

Ben Spackman
11-12-2009, 11:40 AM
.vm[@v?v*

vm[ is the root, but I'm not on my Pc and don't have the font installed.

Then you just open up the KWIC, IIRC.

Edit: actually, type that in to the KWIC, don't input it from the command line.

Sansom48
11-12-2009, 12:18 PM
Thank you very much, that worked for me and gave me the information in which I was looking for.

jimofbentley
11-12-2009, 11:28 PM
.vm[@v?v*

vm[ is the root, but I'm not on my Pc and don't have the font installed.

Then you just open up the KWIC, IIRC.

Edit: actually, type that in to the KWIC, don't input it from the command line.

How do you type that into the command line? Whenever I am in WTM and try and do something like this, the @v?v* comes out in Hebrew characters.

Although, interestingly, when I copied and pasted it from your example above, it was fine (except I had to reverse the root letters).

brethicks
11-13-2009, 07:50 AM
Are you sure you are searching on WTM - and not WTT. If you search on WTT you are not able to do the "@v*" type searches since WTT has no morphological tags. To do those, you must set your search version to WTM - not WTT. Hope that helps.

jimofbentley
11-13-2009, 07:21 PM
Are you sure you are searching on WTM - and not WTT. If you search on WTT you are not able to do the "@v*" type searches since WTT has no morphological tags. To do those, you must set your search version to WTM - not WTT. Hope that helps.

I double checked, and, yes, I was searching on WTM. I still can't type directly this particular code without it coming out in Hebrew.

I find I usually just use the Morphology Assistant when I use a Hebrew search such as this.

ISalzman
11-13-2009, 08:40 PM
I double checked, and, yes, I was searching on WTM. I still can't type directly this particular code without it coming out in Hebrew.

I find I usually just use the Morphology Assistant when I use a Hebrew search such as this.

Hey Jim, good that you're searching on WTM. But one other thing you might want to check. After typing the lemma of the word you're attempting to search, are you moving the cursor to the right of the Hebrew before typing in the @ sign?

jimofbentley
11-14-2009, 05:56 PM
Hey Jim, good that you're searching on WTM. But one other thing you might want to check. After typing the lemma of the word you're attempting to search, are you moving the cursor to the right of the Hebrew before typing in the @ sign?

Yes I was, but in trying all sorts of things I figured out what I was doing wrong.

I was putting a "space" between the end of the word (well, the beginning really - as Hebrew starts at the right) and the @. If you put in a space, it continues in Hebrew characters (final form of Peh for the @), if you don't put in a space, you get the @ and can continue with the search.

This, of course, makes sense from a programming point of view because you would never have a final form of the letter at the beginning of the word - so it is a good marker.

Thanks guys for prodding me on to look at it.

ISalzman
11-14-2009, 06:02 PM
Yes I was, but in trying all sorts of things I figured out what I was doing wrong.

I was putting a "space" between the end of the word (well, the beginning really - as Hebrew starts at the right) and the @. If you put in a space, it continues in Hebrew characters (final form of Peh for the @), if you don't put in a space, you get the @ and can continue with the search.

This, of course, makes sense from a programming point of view because you would never have a final form of the letter at the beginning of the word - so it is a good marker.

Thanks guys for prodding me on to look at it.

Glad you got it worked out, Jim. Now maybe you can tell us a little bit about the bush kangaroos of the Australian Outback. :) When I was a kid, there was a TV show called "Skippy, the bush kangaroo." I've not forgotten it apparently.

Sansom48
11-17-2009, 12:49 PM
I am glad that other people had issues with that as well. I originally tried to do the search with WTT and couldn't figure it out, I looked it up in the help files and was able to correct myself but it is also good to know not to add spaces, something I never would have thought of, but probably would have done at some point.

jimofbentley
11-18-2009, 10:13 PM
Glad you got it worked out, Jim. Now maybe you can tell us a little bit about the bush kangaroos of the Australian Outback. :) When I was a kid, there was a TV show called "Skippy, the bush kangaroo." I've not forgotten it apparently.

The numbers of Kangaroos in Australia number well into the millions - some estimate that there are more Kangaroos than people. Although certain varieties are endangered, generally speaking there are more Kangaroos here now than when British settlers first arrived.

This is primarily because:

1) farmers sowed crops - which gave them a steady supply of green feed.
2) farmers dug dams - which gave them a steady supply of fresh water

Most farmers don't like them, primarily because of the damage they do to crops and fences, although there are some who feed and protect them to the great irritation of their neighbours :mad:.

There are professional Roo shooters who are given/sold licences to cull the numbers, although most of the meat goes into the pet food market, and little goes into domestic use. I think that it is aversion to the idea of eating "Skippy" :D - although cooked properly they are not bad ;). Higher in protein than beef, and much lower in fat. The skins are used for stuffed toys in the tourist trade and whatever else they can find.

For those in the US who live in Deer country, you will appreciate the amount of damage a Kangaroo can do to your car if you hit one, and there have been known cases, the brother in law of friend for one, who was killed by a roo that crashed through the windscreen and killed the gentleman while it thrashed about. They mainly come out at night, so one has to be very careful when driving on country roads. Contrary to popular opinion, we rarely have kangaroos hopping down the main street of Perth (or Sydney, Melbourne, etc), although it has been known to happen.

You sometimes hear about "boxing kangaroos" - but that isn't the worry. They fight by grabbing hold of their opponent with their smaller front legs, leaning back on their tail, and with their strong hind legs trying to disembowell you. With other kangaroos it is all right as their thick skin protects them. Bit dangerous for people and hunting dogs, however.

They are beautiful to watch. Especially when they are in full flight. Marvellous creatures.

Although they can have several joeys developing at once, they have the capacity - during times of drought - to "turn off" one or more and totally stop development for a period of time until feed and water return. They can then "turn on" one embryo while leaving the other dormant to develop at a later time. Absolutely incredible.

ISalzman
11-19-2009, 09:00 AM
The numbers of Kangaroos in Australia number well into the millions - some estimate that there are more Kangaroos than people. Although certain varieties are endangered, generally speaking there are more Kangaroos here now than when British settlers first arrived.

This is primarily because:

1) farmers sowed crops - which gave them a steady supply of green feed.
2) farmers dug dams - which gave them a steady supply of fresh water

Most farmers don't like them, primarily because of the damage they do to crops and fences, although there are some who feed and protect them to the great irritation of their neighbours :mad:.

There are professional Roo shooters who are given/sold licences to cull the numbers, although most of the meat goes into the pet food market, and little goes into domestic use. I think that it is aversion to the idea of eating "Skippy" :D - although cooked properly they are not bad ;). Higher in protein than beef, and much lower in fat. The skins are used for stuffed toys in the tourist trade and whatever else they can find.

For those in the US who live in Deer country, you will appreciate the amount of damage a Kangaroo can do to your car if you hit one, and there have been known cases, the brother in law of friend for one, who was killed by a roo that crashed through the windscreen and killed the gentleman while it thrashed about. They mainly come out at night, so one has to be very careful when driving on country roads. Contrary to popular opinion, we rarely have kangaroos hopping down the main street of Perth (or Sydney, Melbourne, etc), although it has been known to happen.

You sometimes hear about "boxing kangaroos" - but that isn't the worry. They fight by grabbing hold of their opponent with their smaller front legs, leaning back on their tail, and with their strong hind legs trying to disembowell you. With other kangaroos it is all right as their thick skin protects them. Bit dangerous for people and hunting dogs, however.

They are beautiful to watch. Especially when they are in full flight. Marvellous creatures.

Although they can have several joeys developing at once, they have the capacity - during times of drought - to "turn off" one or more and totally stop development for a period of time until feed and water return. They can then "turn on" one embryo while leaving the other dormant to develop at a later time. Absolutely incredible.

Wow, very interesting. Thanks for your response, Jim. A lot of what you say does actually remind me of the problems we face with our overcrowded deer population.

I never realized that people ate kangaroo. I guess it must taste like chicken, huh? :) I assume they probably don't conform to the dietary qualifications for "clean" animals in Leviticus (chew their cud, split hooves)? And I assume Skippy has moved on to 'Roo heaven?'

Sansom48
11-19-2009, 10:08 AM
I also enjoyed your response, to think of a kangaroo like a deer is simply something I never would have done.