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Y2K2
08-21-2004, 05:35 AM
Shalom,
In the Power Mode when the results of a Hebrew lemma (root) is obtained is there a way of knowing the total amount of times a root is used without literally counting them?
My second question is this: Also in the Power Mode, I have set the keyboard layout to Hebrew with English as default. When doing a search in the command window using the WTT the keyboard setting in WinXP automatically changes to Hebrew (I can see this in the bottom toolbar). This produces "funny characters" in the command window. Of necessity I have to manually change the WinXP language setting in the bottom toolbar from Hebrew to English. Only then can I type in Hebrew in the command window. When you have to do this extra step each time you do a search in the command window it gets to be a bit much.
Thank you for whatever advice you can give.
Roundtree

Gontroppo
08-21-2004, 06:19 PM
G'day Roundtree. I can answer the first part of your question:

If you 1. click on a Hebrew word in the WTM database [I right- clicked on %lEhoh;( in Genesis 2:24 ]

Then 2. select search on lemma and scroll down to get your hit on the verb and not the article]
and 3. click
You will get a report in the list box, but also, at the bottom of your screen there will be a report of the number of hits. I got 1348 verses, 157 forms 1549 hits in 0.14 secs.

Does this help?

David McKay

Y2K2
08-22-2004, 01:13 AM
[QUOTE=Gontroppo]G'day Roundtree. I can answer the first part of your question:

Thank you. I am new to Bible Works and its forum. Please tell me how to reply to a post without using the quote box.

By, the way David, in Genesis 2:24 the verb
הלד is not present instead I did a search on 'עזב but the results were the same as those you described.

I have considered disabling the Hebrew capability in the language section of the bottom toolbar in WinXP (located near the clock/time info) in hope that this will resolve my problem but I need the Hebrew capability for other software that I have.

Shalom,
Roundtree

Gontroppo
08-22-2004, 01:44 AM
Whoops!

I goofed!

Don't know what verse I searched on!

David McKay

Y2K2
08-22-2004, 03:57 AM
Gontroppo,

I hope that you can view this. I'm not sure how to issue a reply in the forum. I had hoped that you would tell me in your reply. Anyway, just would like to know if are using WinXP and if so are you experiencing any problem with typing in Hebrew in the Command Line such as that that I described in my initial post. Living in Australia you are probably just typing in English and occassionally in Hebrew (in BW), is that correct?

Roundtree

Gontroppo
08-22-2004, 05:05 PM
Hi Roundtree
I am a bit slack and I don't type into the command line in Hebrew.

I would like to be more adept at Hebrew.
I studied it for 4 years at college, but that finished 24 years ago.

Sorry I can't help.

But, I can answer this one:
I do use Win XP

David McKay

David Kummerow
08-22-2004, 07:34 PM
Gday Roundtree,

I think perhaps your Hebrew typing problems are due to the fact that as yet Bibleworks does not support Unicode. This is why you get the funny symbols. BW itself uses its own non-Unicode Hebrew font, but your keyboard is giving BW Unicode input: hence the funny symbols. This is also why the problem is corrected when you again select the English keyboard driver.

Hope this helps.

David.

Y2K2
08-22-2004, 09:54 PM
David,

You are correct. Your answer is the same given by BW6 support team. I was hoping to find a work around, a solution, that would eliminate my having to do the extra step of changing from the WinXP Hebrew keyboard to the WinXP English keyboard so that I could type in Hebrew in the Command Line of BW6. I hope that I am being clear (?). I thought of deleting the Hebrew keyboard of WinXP, then WinXP would not change to Hebrew when the cursor is in the Command Line but I need the Hebrew keyboard for my Hebrew/English word processor and a few other software programs that I have.

Thanks for taking the time to think with me.

Roundtree.

David Kummerow
08-23-2004, 02:51 AM
Roundtree,

Under Tools > Options > Fonts select "Keyboard Layouts". Choose the language "hebrew" and make sure that the keyboard driver is something like US (00000409) and not some Hebrew keyboard driver. Otherwise, when BW starts to type Hebrew, WinXP will do its switch like you've noticed from EN to HE.

Like me, you need to type in other applications in Hebrew. You don't have to delete your keyboard driver: just make sure that BW is using an English keyboard driver and everything should be fine (I hope).

Regards,

David Kummerow.

Y2K2
08-23-2004, 09:24 AM
Shalom David,

I have set the keyboard language to Hebrew, Keyboard layouts to Hebrews (0000040d) and the Default Keyboard Layout to US (00000409). Evenso when the cursor is in the Command Line window WinXP switches automatically to Hebrew, necessitating my changing it back to English. Apparently there is no solution other than constantly switching back and forth. Interesting that you don't have this problem. Are your Keyboard layout settings the same as mine?

Roundtree.

David Kummerow
08-23-2004, 07:07 PM
Shalom again,

Set your default keyboard layout and the Hebrew keyboard layout to US (00000409). If you don't, BW wants to use a Hebrew keyboard driver, so WinXP does its swap from EN to HE. Because BW does not support Unicode, I think you have to use the US (00000409) keyboard driver otherwise one encounters the problems that you are experiencing.

To test the above, I changed my settings to resemble yours and I had the same problems. So make the correction and it should be fine.

What I've said pertains also to Win2000 as this is the operating system I use. WinXP and Win2000 are the same in this regard.

Braxot,

David.

Y2K2
08-24-2004, 12:14 PM
David,

Thanks for taking the time to help. I did as you said and now I no longer have the problem of WinXP switching itself to Hebrew while my cursor stands in the Command Line.

Maybe someone else was also experiencing the same problem as I and your advice will help them also.

Shalom ,

Roundtree.

Philip Brown
08-26-2004, 08:53 PM
Shalom,
In the Power Mode when the results of a Hebrew lemma (root) is obtained is there a way of knowing the total amount of times a root is used without literally counting them?
Like Dave McKay said, the number of "hits" = the number of time a root occurs, IF you selected search on lemma.
Of course, you have to check your Kethib/Qere settings -- I'd suggest searching only Kethib if you want to know how many times a given root occurs in the text.

Under Options | Option Flags | Command Line Search Options, you would want to make sure that you have the following options checked:
Always compute hits for command line searches
Computer CC hits by permutation

Another significant item to consider: Hebrew has homonyms, so a search on the lemma of rB,DI in Gen. 12:4 will produce 2635 hits (IF you don't have vowel point sensitive searching turned on). The number 2635 means that the total number of occurences for all the Hebrew words with a root of rbd (and there are a good number of them) is 2635.

If you want to find a specific root, you'll want to do two things:
1. Turn on vowel point sensitive searching AND
2. specify a homonym code

In the example above, when I turn on vowel point sensitive searching and search on the lemma of rB,DI in Gen. 12:4, I get 1142 hits.
If you scroll down through the Full Word List box, you'll find that of those 1142 hits, some have the code Ha, others Hb, and one Hc.

If you search for each of those homonyms individually
rbd@v*+*Ha (rbd@v*+*Ha)* = 8 hits
rbd@v*+*Hb (rbd@v*+*Hb)* = 1133 hits
rbd@v*+*Hc (rbd@v*+*Hc)* = 1 hit

I remember the first time I tried to search for the occurrences of Sheol in BW, I came up with over 400 hits! I knew that there were only 65 occurrences of the noun in the OT, how in the world ... till I figured out I was also getting all the occurrences of Sha'ul (Saul) because I didn't have vowel-point sensitive searching on.

Hope that helps some.

Y2K2
08-27-2004, 10:13 AM
Phillip,
Thank you for your advice. I am new to BW so I have much to learn. Even at this early stage I've seen that BW has a lot to offer and am truly pleased to have made the investment. Now that it is weekend I have the time to test your advice. I was not aware of being able to do vowel sensitive searches.

Once I have tested your advice I will let you know via the forum the results.

Shalom,

Roundtree.

Y2K2
08-27-2004, 04:30 PM
Phillip,
I just did a search on the root דבר just as advised and I see that the vowel point sensitive search does eliminate undesired root forms. In the example you mentioned in Genesis that would mean that only forms in the piel pattern would be given, correct?

Also Phillip, what does Ha, Hb and Hc homonym forms mean? Can I find an explanation in the BW Help file?

When typing in this forum are you using a Hebrew/English word processor? I tried using the keyboard layout of BW but it's only functional in BW apparently.

Shalom,
Roundtree.

Philip Brown
08-27-2004, 09:48 PM
In the example you mentioned in Genesis that would mean that only forms in the piel pattern would be given, correct? Shalom, Roundtree,

Close, but not quite. Doing a root search on rB,DI in Gen. 12:4 with vowel-point sensitive searching finds ALL occurrences of rbd in ANY pattern (qal, niphal, piel, etc.). If you wanted to find only Piel forms, you would need to specify that in a WTM command line search line: rbd@vp*


Also Phillip, what does Ha, Hb and Hc homonym forms mean? Can I find an explanation in the BW Help file?If you place your cursor over rB,DI in Gen. 12:4, in the Auto-Info window, you'll see the following parsing: rbd verb piel perfect 3rd person masculine singular homonym 2.

Notice the "hononym 2" part. That tells you that, according to those parsing Hebrew verbs in the WTM and for that matter in HALOT, they believe that there are at least two Hebrew verbs with the root rbd. (WTM & HALOT list 3 homonyms) This is one place where BDB shows its age or at least handles the data differently. Where HALOT & WTM see homonyms, BDB tends to see different senses of the same root (sometimes).

All of that to say that Ha is the WTM code for Homonym 1, Hb for Homonym 2, etc. If the code is Hx, that means there are no homonyms for that root.

Yes, you can find this and much more information under "The WTM Hebrew Morphological Coding Scheme" in the Help.


When typing in this forum are you using a Hebrew/English word processor? I tried using the keyboard layout of BW but it's only functional in BW apparently.I just copy and paste the Hebrew in from BW. It's easier that way.:)
When I paste Hebrew into this window, it comes in as English, but if I delete the space/hard return in front of that Henglish, the font reverts to Hebrew.

B'rakot,
Philip

Y2K2
01-24-2005, 02:07 AM
I have been pasting Hebrew in the forum when I remembered your suggestion of pasting in English and then deleting the space/hard return thereby causing the English to revert back to Hebrew.

I assume that means just hitting the delete key but this results in the deletion of a letter which is not the intent, obviously. I know this is an elementary function but - could you tell me how to delete the space/hard return without deleting a letter?

Roundtree.

Philip Brown
01-24-2005, 07:57 AM
When I posted this the first time, I most of my English text turned to Hebrew. Apparently you have to manually set the English font name after inserting Hebrew of the Hebrew font tag will be 'unclosed'. Reminds me of DOS WordStar days when I would get a bold code in my document somewhere that was not closed and everything would be bold!


Hi, Roundtree,


I assume you're using a PC keyboard -- a mac keyboard functions a bit differently, if I remember correctly.

***Eg***
Here's an example. In Psalm 139:24 the Hebrew word
bc,[o- occurs. At issue is whether it means 'pain' or 'idol.'
******

In the above example, you would need to place your cursor to the right of the 'b' in "bc,[o-" and then hit the backspace key. You should do this before typing more English otherwise it will look like this.

***Eg***
Here's an example. In Psalm 139:24 the Hebrew word bc,[o- occurs. At issue is whether it means 'pain' or 'idol.'
******


Of course, if you get the above, just highlight the text that isn't supposed to be Hebrew and change the font back to Verdana or whatever you use. Like this.

***Eg***
Here's an example. In Psalm 139:24 the Hebrew word bc,[o occurs. At issue is whether it means 'pain' or 'idol.'
******


Hope that helps.