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Adelphos
10-11-2009, 10:17 AM
If you read the other thread in the non-BW section, there was some confusion on my language. In trying to clarify, I decided to try to run the search that it was mistakenly thought I was talking about. In constructing this new query, I have not gotten very far.

I think this would be a good demonstration of BW's capability, so I'm offering a free-for-all participation to see the best way to work this query out. I have begun by enclosing a VERY basic GSE query to get us going.

The goal is to find the most common verb-noun phrase in the Tanach. As you can see with the enclosed query, I have begun with "amar yhvh".

This phrase occurs 614 times in the Tanach. The verb "amar" by itself occurs some 5300+ times, so the phrase "amar yhvh" occurs about 11 percent of this.

Now, several assumptions have been made based on the fact that, one, amar is the most common verb in the Tanach, and two, that the most common noun in the Tanach is yhvh.

Admittedly, this does not guarantee that either of these words will be found in the most common verb-noun construction in the Tanach, but it is a good place to start, and we can narrow it down from there.

So the first obstacle I've encountered is, how do we eliminate all other verb-noun statements ala the enclosed query?

Or is there a completely different and better way to do this in the first place. IOW, is there a better way to start?

The goal, as already stated, is to find the most common verb-noun construction in the Tanach. Keep in mind also that when considering "amar yehovah" (or any other query), that we must take into account those phrases that may say "he said" in those cases where it refers to yhvh.

I hope this is clear. Any help will be appreciated.

MBushell
10-12-2009, 01:10 PM
One way to tackle a question like this is as follows:

1. Open the KWIC (Key Word in Context) window.
2. Make sure the search version is WTM and enter RMA (type AMR)

Click consecutively on the 1,2,3,4 and 5 tabs and it will tell you the most frequently occurring words in those positions relative to AMR. It basically tells you what nouns occur most frequently in the vacinity of AMR. As it turns out, the answer does in fact appear to be YHWH. So if you see the word AMR you are very likely to see the word YHWH close by. In position 1 I would imagine the relationship is almost always subject-verb.

Mike

Adelphos
10-12-2009, 01:44 PM
One way to tackle a question like this is as follows:

1. Open the KWIC (Key Word in Context) window.
2. Make sure the search version is WTM and enter RMA (type AMR)

Click consecutively on the 1,2,3,4 and 5 tabs and it will tell you the most frequently occurring words in those positions relative to AMR. It basically tells you what nouns occur most frequently in the vacinity of AMR. As it turns out, the answer does in fact appear to be YHWH. So if you see the word AMR you are very likely to see the word YHWH close by. In position 1 I would imagine the relationship is almost always subject-verb.

Thanks much. I will play with that directly. In the meantime, I wonder if you or anyone else could confirm either, 1, a bug, or 2, (and more likely), my error.

In the query I provided above, it returns 614 hits. This query, of course, is "amar yhvh"

Now then, with WTM as my search version, if I query "amar <any noun>", i.e., --

'amr@v* *@n*

it only returns around 200 hits (I ran it earlier several times, but don't remember the exact number, but somewhere around 100-200 hits).

In other words, "amar yhvh" -- which is a restricted-verb restrictd-noun search -- returns 614 hits, whereas a "amar <any noun>" search -- which is a restricted-verb UNrestricted-noun search -- returns only about 1/3 of that.

The point being, that the exact reverse should be the case. The latter search should return MORE hits than the former search.

It's either my syntax, or... what?

MBushell
10-12-2009, 03:26 PM
Scott,
The two words in your command line search are in the wrong order. Reverse the order and you should get the same # of hits.
Mike

Gilbert Salinas
10-12-2009, 03:45 PM
Is there any way to do a search that can find all verses that continue a thought from a preceding verse that has NO PUNCTUATION???

e.g. Gen 23:17-18, Gen 24:55-56

Adelphos
10-12-2009, 03:47 PM
I knew I had to be doing something wrong. When I reverse the order I get 1841 hits, which seems about right, and which is about what I would have expected.

Adelphos
10-12-2009, 05:28 PM
After playing with the KWIC it looks like "God said..." is far and away the most comon subject-verb combination in the Tanach, not only with YHVH but also with EL, ELOHIM, etc.

The KWIC is a great tool. I am going to have to experiement with it more and see what else can be stirred up with it.

Ben Spackman
10-12-2009, 06:12 PM
I dealt with a similar question here.
http://bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1178

Unfortunately, it appears that the search no longer returns results in BW8, and I'm not sure why.

Adelphos
10-12-2009, 07:43 PM
When running the query I enclosed at the top of this thread -- "amr yhvh" -- you get 614 hits.

However, in KWIC, with WTM as the search version, AMR as the word, you get 619 hits. (Click on the 1 column).

In other words, there is a descrepancy of 5 hits.

Would anyone have any idea why this is?

EDIT: I'm wondering if this could be the result of crossing verse boundaries, but I can't find a way to get the verses from that particular column into the VLM so I could find out which verses were common/uncommon to each query. That would be a nice enhancement, but I don't know if it can be done because I don't know if the verses from the specific column can be separated out.

Dale A. Brueggemann
10-13-2009, 07:40 PM
...looks like "God said..." is far and away the most comon subject-verb combination in the Tanach, not only with YHVH but also with EL, ELOHIM, etc.

And that's a strong reminder that he's the self-revealing God. As Francis Schaeffer titled a book a few decades ago, "He is there and he is not silent."