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Adelphos
10-10-2009, 11:28 AM
With the new update for the WTM/WLM I ran a global morphological search on nouns and verbs. The most common noun in the Tanach is "Jehovah", occuring -- according to the BW search -- 6828 times. The most common verb is "say", occuring 5294 times.

So the most common noun-verb combination in the Tanach is rma hwhy

In other words, the most common noun-verb combination in God's Word is God said...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." John 1:1, Revelation 19:11-13

Jim Wert
10-10-2009, 02:18 PM
With the new update for the WTM/WLM I ran a global morphological search on nouns and verbs. The most common noun in the Tanach is "Jehovah", occuring -- according to the BW search -- 6828 times. The most common verb is "say", occuring 5294 times.

So the most common noun-verb combination in the Tanach is rma hwhy

In other words, the most common noun-verb combination in God's Word is God said...


37 years ago in a statistics course I made the acquaintance of something called "the fallacy of ecological correlation". Your conclusion has a similar flaw. It can only be proven by searching for all noun-verb combinations in the TANAKH, and ordering them by frequency of occurrence.

Your assignment, Scott, should you choose to accept it, is do this combination search. I'll be very interested to see both the method and the results.

--Jim

Adelphos
10-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Your assignment, Scott, should you choose to accept it, is do this combination search. I'll be very interested to see both the method and the results.

That would be a good search, which I may perform, but my presentation did not attempt to prove a logical syllogism, but rather to reveal an interesting truth.

Flaws are purely a matter of interpretation, and it is a flaw to think otherwise, for flaws can only occur where there are rules, and rules must be violated before a flaw can be ascribed.

I assigned no rules, nor attempted to prove a statistical regimen. I merely observed an observable fact, unless of course you interpret the word "combination" to mean that I was saying that those words occur exactly in that combination, which I think it was pretty clear that I was not saying.

For example, it is not disputable that the noun "Jehovah" and the verb "say" are the two most frequent occurences in the Tanach, nor is it a flaw to join them together in noting that fact. It is purely an interpretation of the evidence, as is calling the presentation a "flaw" purely an interpretation of the presentation.

There is a reason that an unregenerate man cannot understand the Scriptures, even though he thinks he can, and it's not because he's not capable of logic, but rather because he's not capable of operating in the realm of the Holy Spirit.

Many consider it a "flaw" to say that people rise from the dead, but the flaw is in their perspective, not in that truth.

Dale A. Brueggemann
10-10-2009, 05:44 PM
Wasn't Wirt indicating that just because you have a most common noun (YHWH) and a most common verb ('amar), that doesn't mean those two together are the most common noun-verb expression? It's definitely possible, but not yet demonstrated.

Adelphos
10-10-2009, 06:00 PM
Wasn't Wirt indicating that just because you have a most common noun (YHWH) and a most common verb ('amar), that doesn't mean those two together are the most common noun-verb expression? It's definitely possible, but not yet demonstrated.

The only thing I noted was that the two are the most common noun and most common verb in the Tanach independently. I make no claim about the most common phrase.

I simply noted the most common noun, "Jehovah", and the most common verb, "said" (amr in the qal).

If BW is correct, and I'm sure it is, these are the facts. I then drew a simple illustration based on those facts. So I'm not really sure where the confusion is. Nowhere did I assert that the phrase "God said..." is the most common phrase in the Tanach. It may be, it may not be, but that has nothing to do with the illustration I made.

Perhaps instead of saying the most common noun-verb "combination" I could have said the most common noun and most common verb, if combined, would be "God said...", but I think that's clearly what I meant in the first place.

bobvenem
10-11-2009, 10:22 AM
Perhaps instead of saying the most common noun-verb "combination" I could have said the most common noun and most common verb, if combined, would be "God said...", but I think that's clearly what I meant in the first place.

Scott,

Putting it that way would have been far clearer. By doing so you would have shown it to be potentially true; your wording in the first entry suggests that it is actually true.

And, yes, that would be an interesting study.

Bob

Adelphos
10-11-2009, 10:38 AM
Scott,

Putting it that way would have been far clearer. By doing so you would have shown it to be potentially true; your wording in the first entry suggests that it is actually true.

And, yes, that would be an interesting study.

Bob

Fair enough. What I was showing is not potential though. What I was saying is that the most common noun and the most common verb in the Tanach, when combined, basically equates to "God said..."

That is a fact regardless of the semantics, and that was all I was attempting to point out.

bobvenem
10-11-2009, 10:44 AM
Point taken, and and an interesting one as well. Students in my Psalms class are analyzing Psalm 119 this week; this will be a nice aside for them.

Adelphos
10-11-2009, 10:49 AM
Point taken, and and an interesting one as well. Students in my Psalms class are analyzing Psalm 119 this week; this will be an nice aside for them.

I actually performed a search on the PHRASE "amar yehovah". I first queried a global verb-noun construction on the CL and came up, if memory serves, with over 5000 hits. I then ran "amar yehovah" and came up with about 11 percent of the original. (I'm going by memory, so my numbers here may be off a little).

Anyway, I am now at the point to where I am not quite sure how I would go about eliminating all other verb-noun statements so as to determine which verb-noun phrase is the most common in the Tanach.

I think somebody out there would know how to do this, so if anyone has any ideas, fire away.

EDIT: Okay, the 5000+ hits came on the word "amar". I then ran the other query, which came out to about 11 percent of that.