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Noel Fitzpatrick
09-27-2009, 06:13 PM
As I am studying the Pastoral Epistles at present, using the WLM I would like to find out unique words, especially nouns, in 1Ti, 2Ti and Tit.

I have some preliminary problems.

1. How do I list Greek lemmas using BNT/M?
2. How can I form a word list with lemmas in several Epistles, e.g. Rom 1:1 - 2Th 3:18 and Phm?
3. What is the best way to undertake my study?

Regards and Thanks.

Adelphos
09-27-2009, 07:04 PM
As I am studying the Pastoral Epistles at present, using the WLM I would like to find out unique words, especially nouns, in 1Ti, 2Ti and Tit...

One of the many great things about BibleWorks is that there are a ton of different ways to break it all down and then compare all the various permutations. Here's the way I would do it, at least initially...

To begin, I would initially break it down book-by-book. Make BNM your search version. Set your search limits to 1Ti.

Now type on the CL -- .*@n????

This will give you all nouns in 1Ti. Now import those into the first window in the WLM. After you have them in the WLM, save the list as an IEL file (from the File Menu).

Click on the secondary window button in WLM to make that the active window. With the WLM still open, go back to the Browse window and now set your search limits to 2Ti. Now repeat the same search as above.

This will give you all the nouns in 2Ti. Now import that list into the secondary window in the WLM. Once again, save this also as an IEL file.

You can now perform comparisons between the two windows, such as common words and uncommon words. You can also exclude/include certain words and various word groupings.

You would also, of course, want to clear at least one of the two windows and perform the same action for the book of Titus.

After having all three files saved as IEL files, you could also make a master file, or a combo file, like 1Ti & 2Ti, etc., and then run comparisons that way.

You could also vary your search limits to include the other books you mentioned and then perform a search on nouns, verbs, or particular forms, and so forth.

In short, there are countless ways that you can manipulate the data, so you will have to decide what factors to employ.

Noel Fitzpatrick
09-28-2009, 10:08 AM
Thank you so much, Scott, for your detailed and clear reply to me.
I am also grateful to you for originally directing me to “Lamb Lion Net”. It is an interesting site. I note the quotation from the PEs "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men: the man Christ Jesus" 1 Timothy 2:5.

This clearly shows that the PEs, as well as having advice for behaviour, also have very deep theology.

Would you like to comment on my study project? I hope to look at the theology of the PEs, using, as part of the study BibleWorks, to find what theological topics are unique to the PEs and also which topics in the other Pauline Epistles are not in the PEs (e.g. the cross). I also wish to compare the theology of the PEs, with Matthew and the Apostolic Fathers.

From these studies, assuming beliefs were held everywhere and by all (ubique et ab omnibus), I hope to date the PEs, comparing the theology of the PEs with the Didache which is assumed to date from the 40s, Paul from the 50s and 60, Matthew from the 70s and 80s, Clement from the 90s, Ignatius from between 100 and 119 and Polycarp from between 120 and 160.

If you agree, I will let this forum know how I get on with your suggestions.



Once again, sincere thanks.


Noel Fitzpatrick.

Adelphos
09-28-2009, 11:48 AM
If you agree, I will let this forum know how I get on with your suggestions.

It sounds like a very interesting study. As I said, there are countless ways you can manipulate the data, so you'll need to think about that. I would sit down and come up with a pro forma, as if you were going to design and build a house, on which ways you are going to categorize and compare your data.

Also, if you are going to do comparisons with the ECF, I would definitely also include the SCR/SCM databases in your search/compare patterns, as you will find that the early fathers in particular, like Ignatius, Polycarp etc., agree almost excusively with the Textus Receptus against the Latin Vulgate text of the GNT/GNM and BNT/BNM. Accordingly, your results will be much more fruitful in this area if you use the SCR/SCM than they will with the Latin Vulgate/Critical Text.

All in all, I would say the main thing is to narrow down the specifics and then you can add as you go. For example, start with nouns in the three PE books of 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, and not only work all the permutations between those three books, but also work the permutations with the APF. Then you could expand your search by either adding books/APF citations, or by concentrating next on verbs, and so on.

As I said, the permutations are so numerous that a good pro forma up front will make things much more intuitive.

Noel Fitzpatrick
09-28-2009, 02:02 PM
I have tried to follow your recommendations, Scott.

However I seem to get all inflected forms and not lemmas. Thus for ADELQOS in 1Ti I get three words, the nom, acc and dat singular forms.

I get the same result directly from the WLM when I load and generate a version using BNM and Load from a Bible Source (1Ti) and filter using *@n*. The reason may be that I have set something to seek inflected forms rather than lemmas.

I was unable to search more that one range, but you have solved this by showing I should use "&", rather than a blank or a comma.

Thus is there any way for me to get lemmas?

Again, many thanks.

Adelphos
09-28-2009, 02:26 PM
Thus is there any way for me to get lemmas?

If you want the lemma solely, then you switch to BNT, or GNT, or SCR, or WTT, etc., i.e., to the cousin of the morphological version. Thus, if you want the lemma for pisteuw in the BNM/T database, you set your search version as BNT and then type on the CL -- .pisteuw

This will return only the lemma in the BNT.

I don't think there is a way to list strictly all lemmas in the morphological database, but I may be wrong. If so, someone else will have to chime in and correct me.

EDIT: Of course, you could enter only the lemma form in the morph version, (i.e., noun, nominative, any gender, sing) and even though that would return only the lemma form, it would still return every instance of that form in your search range. To get strictly a list of lemmas in a specific search range, I don't think there is a way. But again, I may be wrong.

EDIT 2: Okay, I just taught myself a lesson. If you search on the lemma of a noun in the morph version, specifying on the CL noun, nominative, any gender, sing, then import into the WLM, this will give you EXACTLY what you want, although it will miss inflected forms. Here's the syntax in the BNM -- .*@nn?s?

Set your search limits to 1Ti, then run the above search, then import into the WLM, and viola! You can do the same with verbs (altering the syntax, of course), prepositions, adjectives, etc. But it won't give you the inflected forms, which could be a problem.

Mark Eddy
09-28-2009, 11:53 PM
However I seem to get all inflected forms and not lemmas. Thus for ADELQOS in 1Ti I get three words, the nom, acc and dat singular forms.

I get the same result directly from the WLM when I load and generate a version using BNM and Load from a Bible Source (1Ti) and filter using *@n*. The reason may be that I have set something to seek inflected forms rather than lemmas.

I was unable to search more that one range, but you have solved this by showing I should use "&", rather than a blank or a comma.

Thus is there any way for me to get lemmas?

Again, many thanks.

You did everything right, except that when you are in the "Create Word List" box, you need to uncheck the option at the bottom "Keep morph codes". You should get the same results whether you use BNM or GNM or BGM as your Version. But do not use BNT, GNT, or BGT, because then you will get all the individual words, not the lemmas. And you cannot limit the list to nouns using any of those text databases. Only morphology databases have the information in them to distinguish between various parts of speech.
I hope this helps to clarify what you need to do.
In Christ,
Mark Eddy

Adelphos
09-29-2009, 12:02 AM
You did everything right, except that when you are in the "Create Word List" box, you need to uncheck the option at the bottom "Keep morph codes".

That sure was easy. I had no idea it was that simple. Noel, this gives you exactly what you wanted, I believe.

Noel Fitzpatrick
09-30-2009, 09:48 AM
Thanks very much, Scott and Eddy, for your very helpful advice to resolve my problems.

If more that two texts, not in order, occur I use the command line (CL) first and select the appropriate texts. In WLM I cannot select several text unless less they are in order (eg iep – ipo), since using “Rom & Phi” selects words in both, not in either.

I now have files, which give me a span of over 100 years, Didache (mid 1st century), authentic Paul (50 – 65), Matthew (70-100), 1 Clement (c. 96), Johannine texts (90-110), Ignatius (c. 107), Polycarp (c. 109) and Hermas (mid 2nd century). I will try to find common themes in the PEs and in the above files to date the PEs.

Previously a similar BWs study on the Synoptic Gospels in the Apostolic Fathers worked for me and I wrote it up, but, on advice, I did not submit it for publication.

It seems this side of the Atlantic such studies are not greatly recognized, possibly due to most scholars having a background in the humanities rather than the physical sciences. I wonder would anyone like to send me references to scholarly journals that have articles using BWs effectively.

Regards and thanks.
Noel.

Adelphos
09-30-2009, 10:53 AM
In WLM I cannot select several text unless less they are in order (eg iep – ipo), since using “Rom & Phi” selects words in both, not in either.

Noel, you can separate your books by a semicolon to set your search limits to non-consecutive books, i.e., --

l rom; phi

This will limit your search to Romans and Philippians.

Noel Fitzpatrick
09-30-2009, 10:41 PM
Your reply, Scott, resolved the issue perfectly. In the discussion I raised another issue, but as my principal concerns have been solved so expertly by you and Eddy, I will open a different thread.

I really am most grateful to both of you.