PDA

View Full Version : Zondervan retiring Pradis



Soxfan23
09-22-2009, 02:40 PM
I noticed that Zondervan announced today it is retiring their Pradis software and is licensing their products to other Bible software companies. The only one they mentioned was Logos, which is more electronic-library based so is the most sufficient platform for the majority of their works.

However, I was wondering if Bibleworks would be included in the "other" companies that they mentioned? Accordance already offers Zondervan products, so I don't see how they could be part of the "others." There are a few titles I believe that fit well in line with the Bibleworks philosophy, most notably works like NIDOTTE and NIDNTT. Most of the other works are standard books or commentaries, so I don't see BW being too interested in those. However, if NIDOTTE & NIDNTT were at the right price and tagged to the text, I just may consider purchasing them.

Any rumors or news about this that I don't know about? Any other volumes/products you would like to see BW offer from Zondervan?

Michael Hanel
09-22-2009, 02:54 PM
Any rumors or news about this that I don't know about? Any other volumes/products you would like to see BW offer from Zondervan?

I have heard nothing, but I certainly hope it would be true that Zondervan's latest change of heart is one that is going to be open to all platforms rather than just licensing it to one. After that it's just a matter of pricing schemes for BW and them.

Once again, it's just another sign of publishers still trying to figure out the e-publishing market. I am a little surprised Zondervan pulled the plug on Pradis. I hope people still get "credit" for using those resources in other formats, but obviously Zondervan is under no legal obligation to provide such a concession.

Soxfan23
09-22-2009, 03:37 PM
I have heard nothing, but I certainly hope it would be true that Zondervan's latest change of heart is one that is going to be open to all platforms rather than just licensing it to one. After that it's just a matter of pricing schemes for BW and them.

Once again, it's just another sign of publishers still trying to figure out the e-publishing market. I am a little surprised Zondervan pulled the plug on Pradis. I hope people still get "credit" for using those resources in other formats, but obviously Zondervan is under no legal obligation to provide such a concession.

Their press release (here (http://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/NewsRoom/NewsReleases/Pradis+Logos+Announcement.htm?QueryStringSite=Zond ervan)) indicates that Logos is just one of others that they will license their products to. It also indicates that previous Pradis users will get discounts for their products on other platforms b/c they say they are working for a "smooth transition" for their customers and will provide discounts upon their release.

Michael Hanel
09-22-2009, 03:44 PM
Their press release (here (http://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/NewsRoom/NewsReleases/Pradis+Logos+Announcement.htm?QueryStringSite=Zond ervan)) indicates that Logos is just one of others that they will license their products to. It also indicates that previous Pradis users will get discounts for their products on other platforms b/c they say they are working for a "smooth transition" for their customers and will provide discounts upon their release.

Yeah but unless that discount is free, you see the problem w the transfer process ;-)

Soxfan23
09-22-2009, 04:14 PM
Yeah but unless that discount is free, you see the problem w the transfer process ;-)

I definitely see the problem with it. However, I completely understand why it wouldn't be "free" given that it is on a different platform with a different company. Their work for including it should be rewarded. So, I'm assuming Logos or whoever else gets a cut out of the profit for selling the works on their platform. Therefore, I would think the best way to resolve it would be to only make the customers pay for Logos' cut. This should keep it very cheap and keep people happy. If you have to pay $200 for the NIDOTTE regularly and someone already has it on Pradis, I don't see a problem with paying $20 to use it on Logos. Agreed?

Michael Hanel
09-22-2009, 04:24 PM
I definitely see the problem with it. However, I completely understand why it wouldn't be "free" given that it is on a different platform with a different company. Their work for including it should be rewarded. So, I'm assuming Logos or whoever else gets a cut out of the profit for selling the works on their platform. Therefore, I would think the best way to resolve it would be to only make the customers pay for Logos' cut. This should keep it very cheap and keep people happy. If you have to pay $200 for the NIDOTTE regularly and someone already has it on Pradis, I don't see a problem with paying $20 to use it on Logos. Agreed?

I have no strong opinion on it personally since I never owned Pradis. I might if I paid for the thing and had to pay for it again.

My only point is just that philosophical one, that this e-publishing world can still be confusing, so be careful of your investment. Agreed?

Bottom line, I hope you and the press release are right and more of these works become available in BibleWorks as well. :)

Adelphos
09-22-2009, 04:25 PM
Zondervan will have to break habit if we're to see anything in BibleWorks from them, as profit margin is the only consideration Zondervan is ever interested in. I don't see BibleWorks charging for a Zondervan product unless it is an optional add-on, so either Zondervan will, as I said, have to break habit and offer whatever to BibleWorks for basically a song and dance, or BibleWorks will offer it -- if they offer it at all -- as an optional add-on. Not that I speak for BibleWorks, but going by their past behavior, I think those are the two likey scenarios if we are to see anything from Zondervan in BibleWorks.

Michael Hanel
09-22-2009, 05:59 PM
Zondervan will have to break habit if we're to see anything in BibleWorks from them, as profit margin is the only consideration Zondervan is ever interested in. I don't see BibleWorks charging for a Zondervan product unless it is an optional add-on, so either Zondervan will, as I said, have to break habit and offer whatever to BibleWorks for basically a song and dance, or BibleWorks will offer it -- if they offer it at all -- as an optional add-on. Not that I speak for BibleWorks, but going by their past behavior, I think those are the two likey scenarios if we are to see anything from Zondervan in BibleWorks.

Well it's kind of a truism. Zondervan is a company, they have to be concerned about profits, it's just how companies work. This link (http://zondervan.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/zondervan.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=411&p_created=1253547876&p_sid=soSCWBIj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfc m93X2NudD03LDcmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PSZwX2N 2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfc GFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9bG9nb3M*&p_li=&p_topview=1) does seem to indicate that this new openness may be a long-term development, i.e. not every Pradis book will be available electronically and they also will decide how to package together different books. So I would imagine this will be a slow rollout over time in order to create more sustained revenue flows. There are only so many people who are buying electronic products, you can expect to make more money off of them by releasing them in smaller doses over time rather than all at once. It's not devilish, but it is profit-oriented.

MBushell
09-22-2009, 06:08 PM
Well it's kind of a truism. Zondervan is a company, they have to be concerned about profits, it's just how companies work. This link (http://zondervan.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/zondervan.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=411&p_created=1253547876&p_sid=soSCWBIj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfc m93X2NudD03LDcmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PSZwX2N 2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfc GFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9bG9nb3M*&p_li=&p_topview=1) does seem to indicate that this new openness may be a long-term development, i.e. not every Pradis book will be available electronically and they also will decide how to package together different books. So I would imagine this will be a slow rollout over time in order to create more sustained revenue flows. There are only so many people who are buying electronic products, you can expect to make more money off of them by releasing them in smaller doses over time rather than all at once. It's not devilish, but it is profit-oriented.

I don't have any problem with companies making money by selling Bible research tools. I do have a problem with making money off the actual text of Scripture, but that is another matter. We are on good terms with Zondervan and may be able to offer some of their items as addons. It is unlikely that they will permit anything to go into the base package though.

The closing of Pradis just highlights something that I have said publicly many times. Electronic resources are volatile and short-lived. They are risky investments. Buy print resources first and then electronic. You will never regret the decision. Only buy electronic resources that you will use intensively enough to get your money's worth in a relatively short period of time. They can be fantastic tools. But don't become addicted to them and don't even think about getting rid of your print library. That's my advice, for what it is worth.

Mike

Adelphos
09-22-2009, 06:09 PM
Well it's kind of a truism. Zondervan is a company, they have to be concerned about profits, it's just how companies work.

True, Zondervan is a company. But so is BibleWorks. The difference is that BibleWorks sees themselves as servants, while Zondervan sees itself as a publisher. It could also be said that publishing is a tough business these days, but once again, so is Bible software development.

It would be nice if Zondervan were to make their electronic formats available cheaply, but I'm not betting that that will be the case.

Dan Phillips
09-22-2009, 08:03 PM
Half cheeses me off, half makes me happy. Chiastically:

I'm happy because Pradis stunk.

I'm cheesed off because, if I want to get my NIDOTTE in Logos (accg to the web site) I can pay $199 or get it at the sale price of $199!

Yikes!

I'm with bro Hanel. $00.00 sounds about right to me.

Adelphos
09-22-2009, 09:44 PM
The closing of Pradis just highlights something that I have said publicly many times. Electronic resources are volatile and short-lived. They are risky investments. Buy print resources first and then electronic. You will never regret the decision. Only buy electronic resources that you will use intensively enough to get your money's worth in a relatively short period of time. They can be fantastic tools. But don't become addicted to them and don't even think about getting rid of your print library. That's my advice, for what it is worth.

The only time I ever use most electronic resources is when I have to search for something or copy it. Otherwise I have my nose in the printed version.

For example, I've been going through the Treasury Of David for the past several years in my early morning devotional time, and there's nothing like marking up the page and meditating on it. It's a whole different world than the electronic focus.

If anyone's interested, here is my methodology with regard to Treasury Of David in the mornings...

http://lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/early_morning.htm

Soxfan23
09-22-2009, 11:09 PM
I don't have any problem with companies making money by selling Bible research tools. I do have a problem with making money off the actual text of Scripture, but that is another matter. We are on good terms with Zondervan and may be able to offer some of their items as addons. It is unlikely that they will permit anything to go into the base package though.

The closing of Pradis just highlights something that I have said publicly many times. Electronic resources are volatile and short-lived. They are risky investments. Buy print resources first and then electronic. You will never regret the decision. Only buy electronic resources that you will use intensively enough to get your money's worth in a relatively short period of time. They can be fantastic tools. But don't become addicted to them and don't even think about getting rid of your print library. That's my advice, for what it is worth.

Mike

I would quibble and say that electronic resources "can be" volatile and short-lived. Sure, Pradis was a flop, but that was because it was a publisher trying to publish and be in the Bible software business. This is a different story than Bibleworks, Logos, or Accordance. I don't see anything happening any time soon to you guys.

I also agree that print resources are still very valuable. However, the way I look at it now only CERTAIN resources should be purchased in print. All books should be purchased in print, but when it comes to reference materials it is another story. I just don't have any interest purchasing a 5 volume dictionary set for $280 when I could buy it on a Bible software platform, hopefully for cheaper, and be able to search it 10 times faster and cut my study time in half. The same is true with a lexicon or wordbook. The Bible software platform is just much easier and cuts the search time in half, not to mention the space it saves on the shelf.

Also, because of what you said I believe electronic resources should be cheaper than print resources. Zondervan should not charge the same in electronic format as they do in hard copy. Some publishers just don't seem to get this.

I hope you guys are able to get something worked out with Zondervan regarding a couple of their products (namely, the ones I mentioned above). I agree with your philosophy about some electronic formats and being anti-electronic library. However, reference tools are just invaluable on Bible software platforms.

Soxfan23
09-22-2009, 11:12 PM
Going off the current topic a bit and coming back to one of my original questions: what Zondervan products would you like to see Bibleworks offer?

ISalzman
09-22-2009, 11:17 PM
I am a little surprised Zondervan pulled the plug on Pradis.

I'm not. They really haven't devoted very many resources to the software platform for a while now. They've been planning to do this for some time (I heard rumors about it more than six months ago). I'm not thrilled that they are retiring the product. I actually have liked Pradis. It's got a nice, easy interface to it. And their content, which, till now has pretty much been proprietary, is top notch.

I hope people still get "credit" for using those resources in other formats, but obviously Zondervan is under no legal obligation to provide such a concession.

I sent them an e-mail just this morning re that very matter. I have several titles in Pradis; among them, the Expositors Bible Commentary Series, which I value a lot. I haven't heard back from them yet. But I'd like to know that I'd qualify to receive the same titles in Logos that I already have purchased in Pradis. I don't know what legal obligations they are under, per se, but presumably, when a customer purchases a title, they own a license to the product. It would appear to me that people who own licenses to their products should not lose the same, especially when Zondervan themselves made the decision to suspend the Pradis platform. It's not like they are discontinuing their product. They are still going to be marketing their products across other software platforms. I think the right thing to do would be to honor their customers' licenses.