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Adamsen
08-30-2009, 03:43 AM
I think that I have mentioned it before, perhaps in a beta process. But I will do it again. The reason is that I am currently revising a translation of Revelation. BW is a fantastic tool for many reasons. I cannot do without.

There is, however, one feature that I am still missing. It would be extremely nice and helpful if it was possible to edit the current verse of a given user version. As it is now, I can configure BW to automatically load and display a user note for a verse (or a chapter).

What I need, would be a window that would automatically load the current verse of a user-defined version. If, for example, I need to check all the renderings of, e.g., polemos, then I would be able to search for polemos, review them and make any changes that I would see necessary.

If this editor also supports the available tags (inline notes, italics etc etc), then it would be a dream!

I know that there are excellent translation tools out there, but I really want this function within BibleWorks. As it is now, I am constantly switching between my editor and BW.

Moreover, I believe it would be useful even to those who are not translators or revisors.

Am I the only one?

Dale A. Brueggemann
08-30-2009, 04:52 AM
I would have loved that when working on the NLT. I kept thinking vaguely of something like that but never formulated it and asked for it. Of course, I also kept wishing the NLT committee would give us the work in progress in a BW-compatible module, so I could check my choices against others, especially throughout the Pentateuch, but also elsewhere in the OT.

ISalzman
08-30-2009, 11:45 AM
Dale,

Are you any relation to Walter? I'm sure you probably get asked that a lot, huh?

Dale A. Brueggemann
08-30-2009, 01:13 PM
Yes, and yes ;o)

ISalzman
08-30-2009, 10:27 PM
Wow, interesting. After all these years, I've not yet consulted any of his commentaries, though good friends of mine rave about him. The word is that he deals with the text in a wonderful way. Do you guys interact much about biblical matters and issues, theology, biblical languages, etc.?

Mark Eddy
08-30-2009, 11:25 PM
It would be extremely nice and helpful if it was possible to edit the current verse of a given user version. As it is now, I can configure BW to automatically load and display a user note for a verse (or a chapter).

What I need, would be a window that would automatically load the current verse of a user-defined version. If, for example, I need to check all the renderings of, e.g., polemos, then I would be able to search for polemos, review them and make any changes that I would see necessary.

If this editor also supports the available tags (inline notes, italics etc etc), then it would be a dream!

I know that there are excellent translation tools out there, but I really want this function within BibleWorks. As it is now, I am constantly switching between my editor and BW.

Moreover, I believe it would be useful even to those who are not translators or revisors.

Am I the only one?
I think that what you suggest would have unintended consequences. Currently user-compiled versions are treated just like those versions which ship with BibleWorks. Copyright holders would not want others messing with their translations, or if they did, there would be hundreds of different version of the same translation on different computers, as users made changes to the published versions. And if a user made a change, then he would not have available what the official version says. So we do not want to be able to change copyrighted versions. If we were to be able to edit some versions and not others, BibleWorks would have to invent some new system to lock some versions from being editable.
But what about other user databases? Would those other users want me to change their versions? Would I really want to be able to change their versions, so that I no longer have the original version available? I think not. But how should BibleWorks distinguish between my own user database version and some other user's user database version? I compile both on my computer, so my computer would treat both as belonging to me. That is not right.
So I, for one, am content with editing my own Bible version outside BibleWorks in WordPad and re-compiling it in BibleWorks from time to time. That way I can search on my version within BibleWorks, and edit it outside of BibleWorks. If I wish, I can sleep on the changes before re-compiling my version (checking my "old" version in BibleWorks with my "new" version in WordPad). If I am happy with the changes, I re-compile my version. If I think I was right the first time, I go and change it back in WordPad. It takes only half a minute to compile, so that should not be a problem.
If you want to be able to edit someone else's version, you can always export it and make your own user database version of it, with a different name. That way you keep the original as well as your own edition. So I like it the way it is.
My 2 cents worth,
Mark Eddy

Adamsen
08-31-2009, 02:03 AM
I think that what you suggest would have unintended consequences. ... Mark Eddy

Perhaps, perhaps not. I do not suggest that we should be allowed to edit directly in the compiled databases.

What I suggest is an editor that allows me to edit a text file in a window. I do not suggest that it should be compiled automatically so that copyrighted texts or any other texts are changed.

It is already possible to export a version as a file that can be edited. Some versions can be edited that way already and recompiled. At least that is the case for a version that I converted and provided for an earlier version of BW.

I guess that you really don't like the user version compiler at all? It allows us to change copyrighted texts if we should so desire, does it not?

wie
08-31-2009, 03:16 AM
I agree completely with Georg.

It would be a very useful feature, not only for translators, but also for transcribers of manuscripts. You could choose one version as your source and edit the text while reading the manuscript.

Very good suggestion. You have my full support! :)

jdarlack
08-31-2009, 05:26 PM
I think that this feature would be great. The original purpose of the VDC was to facilitate users working on Bible Translations. I don't think it should be something used to edit current versions, but rather to make new ones from the ground-up.

At the very least it would be great to have the capability of compiling notes made in the editor into verse notes in a version. If another window was added to the editor in which a person could write their own translation that would be exported into the version, then all the better. Or perhaps instead of a separate window, tags could be used that separate the actual translation text from what would be notes in the new version...

Mark Eddy
08-31-2009, 11:41 PM
I guess that you really don't like the user version compiler at all? It allows us to change copyrighted texts if we should so desire, does it not?
Please forgive me for not being clear. I had no intention of denigrating the version database compiler. I use it all the time. I am working on a couple versions of my own, and I have exported versions produced by others and recompiled them so that I could edit them. I have tried to make sure that I re-name those versions, so that I do not overwrite the original version when I compiled my edited version.
But I believe that it is good to make it somewhat difficult to overwrite a published version. It should not be able to do so accidentally. It must be the intention of the user to overwrite a version compiled in BibleWorks. And copyrighted versions have to be kept so that they cannot be changed and retain their abbreviation, as protection for the copyright holders.
When I work on my user databases, I either have the BibleWorks Analysis, Resources, Notes, or Editor tab open. So, if something like you request is desired by many, it would need to be separate from the tabs, so that the information in the tabs can be seen while editing. By editing a user database in something like WordPad outside of BibleWorks, I can have a few lines of the text to be edited open at the bottom of my screen, while devoting most of the space to BibleWorks resources, and see them all at once.
The tools for exporting and compiling databases work well the way they are. Editing outside of BibleWorks works well for me. If the copyright issues can be dealt with, and enough people want what you suggest, then I leave it to the programmers to decide if it is worth their time to do it. I just want you and them to know that the current functionality works well, and it seems to protect against unwanted changes to databases.
Mark Eddy

Adamsen
09-01-2009, 01:50 AM
Please forgive me for not being clear. I had no intention of denigrating the version database compiler. I use it all the time. I am working on a couple versions of my own, and I have exported versions produced by others and recompiled them so that I could edit them. I have tried to make sure that I re-name those versions, so that I do not overwrite the original version when I compiled my edited version.
But I believe that it is good to make it somewhat difficult to overwrite a published version. ... I just want you and them to know that the current functionality works well, and it seems to protect against unwanted changes to databases.
Mark Eddy
Dear Eddy,

I had no intention to suggest that one should be able to edit directly in compiled versions, and certainly not that BW should automatically recompile the version with changes. What I did suggest was an editor to create and/or edit a user version. It would, however, be nice if there would be an option to run the compiler.

You take care to not overwrite copyrighted versions inadvertently. Rightly so. And so do I, in the same way, as a matter of fact.

So: I understand that you are happy with using an external editor. Fine. I - and others - would be happy if an internal editor was added. To me speed and easiness of editing is an issue. Especially when comparing words that occur a lot of times, it is important for me to have all the resources of BW ready as soon as I look at a given verse in a user-version. I get it that you are content to find a verse twice, first in your external editor, then in BW. I would like it to be integrated and also to include shortcuts and menus for the tags that BW supports.

Different users, different needs, I guess. It is my need, though. Whether this functionality will be added, time will tell.

Best regards,

Georg

Dale A. Brueggemann
09-01-2009, 02:13 PM
I agree with Georg. This would not be about making changes to a copyrighted version included with BW but about ongoing work on my own translation. Integrating that with BW without the intervening external editor would be great. And if it was confined to that, why not let it automatically compile so that the compiled version was always up-to-date?

Adamsen
09-01-2009, 02:29 PM
I agree with Georg. This would not be about making changes to a copyrighted version included with BW but about ongoing work on my own translation. Integrating that with BW without the intervening external editor would be great. And if it was confined to that, why not let it automatically compile so that the compiled version was always up-to-date?

Yes, at least as an option, because it may slow down the program, if it is run too often. Perhaps an easy way to compile would be a solution?

Dale A. Brueggemann
09-01-2009, 02:35 PM
Yes, at least as an option, because it may slow down the program, if it is run too often. Perhaps an easy way to compile would be a solution?

That would probably be better, for the speed concern; but integrated without an intervening external editor for sure.

Now that I'm talking about it in this forum, I regret not having raised it here when I was actually working on the NLT. As responsive as the BW team is, they would likely have included it if we made a good case for it, and I would have had it to work with throoughout that project, I have not because I asked not.

Adelphos
09-01-2009, 03:40 PM
Not too sure how difficult it would be to code, but it would indeed be a nice, expeditious feature.

The auto-compile feature, however, should be optional. Perhaps a dedicated button from within the internal editor itself to compile/recompile any changes at will.

Also a compile/recompile "SaveAs" option so that one could maintain a succession of working versions, which as all who have engaged in this type of task knows, is an absolute must.

Dale A. Brueggemann
09-01-2009, 05:27 PM
Scott, that's perfect! It's just what I'm wishing for. And yes, for certain, on your suggestion that it should maintain the succession of working versions, a feature I hadn't thought of.

Adelphos
09-01-2009, 06:11 PM
Scott, that's perfect! It's just what I'm wishing for. And yes, for certain, on your suggestion that it should maintain the succession of working versions, a feature I hadn't thought of.

Thanks, Dale.

On second thoughts about the auto-compile, I think a true auto-compile should probably be left out completely, for it could cause a lot more problems than not. I mean by this that the program would automatically compile when changes were detected.

I don't think that would be a good feature.

I do think a dedicated button within the editor to allow the user to compile at will would be the best way to go.

Dale A. Brueggemann
09-01-2009, 06:22 PM
Yes, I think a dediated compile button would be best; wouldn't want it recompiling every typo I enter, or even every properly typed change that I would reconsider perhaps at length before I said, "That's it! Recompile."