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Precha1
08-08-2009, 05:03 PM
Can anyone offer any assistance on how to compare the verses of Colossians with the verses in Ephesians?

Is it possible to do this using the verse list manager? If so, how? If not, is there another way?

Michael Hanel
08-08-2009, 05:23 PM
Can anyone offer any assistance on how to compare the verses of Colossians with the verses in Ephesians?

Is it possible to do this using the verse list manager? If so, how? If not, is there another way?


It is indeed possible, but can you explain more by what you mean by compare. I assume you mean compare the Greek to each other, but it is not clear. Probably the best option for you is to use the Related Verse Tool to browse verses and see where there are similar verses in the other book.

Precha1
08-08-2009, 05:28 PM
Yes Michael,

I am interested in seeing to what extent the verses in Colossians are repeated in Ephesians. I recently used the WLM to compare the words and saw that roughly 56% of the words were duplicated. Now, I am interested in seeing how the verses compare.

Thanks for your help.

jimofbentley
08-11-2009, 02:41 AM
I did it the "old fashioned" way (well, as "old fashioned" as one can be using a computer), and imported the Greek text of both Ephesians and Colossians into Microsoft Publisher.

I used two text boxes per page - the left for Ephesians, the right for Colossions, and had each linked with text boxes on subsequent pages. I then simply read through, used the "return key" to align two similar texts (for instance, Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16) and using different colors and markings, noted which words were identical, which were different, which were similar (i.e. same root word but a different case ending, number, etc).

Admittedly, not as quick and easy as I'm sure Bible Works could do it (and I'm looking forward to finding out how it could do it) but I feel that I gained a greater appreciation for the similarities, differences, and the flow of argument in each.

Precha1
08-11-2009, 10:37 AM
Thanks Jim for your post and hard work. I was hoping to avoid doing it the "old fashioned" way.

I'm praying that and I'm sure there is an easier less labor intensive way to accomplish this. I just don't know what it is. :confused:

Prayerfully, someone else will read this post and share some insight.

Michael Hanel
08-11-2009, 11:22 AM
Thanks Jim for your post and hard work. I was hoping to avoid doing it the "old fashioned" way.

I'm praying that and I'm sure there is an easier less labor intensive way to accomplish this. I just don't know what it is. :confused:

Prayerfully, someone else will read this post and share some insight.


Preacha1, did you try using the Related Verse Tool yet?

Precha1
08-11-2009, 10:21 PM
Preacha1, did you try using the Related Verse Tool yet?

I was not familiar with the RVT. However, I have been playing around with it. Right now, I am going through each verse in Colossians and using the display threshold of 10 or more hits.

I guess that even with this tool it is going to be a slow and tedious process. Thanks

Adelphos
08-11-2009, 10:26 PM
I guess that even with this tool it is going to be a slow and tedious process.

That may not necessarily be true. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve SPECIFICALLY. I know you stated that you want to compare the verses in Ephesians and Colossians, but that's kind of vague.

Think about what you want to do EXACTLY and then perhaps there's a way to work it out.

For example, if you want to find words that are common to both epistles, or words that are distinct in both epistles, you can do that in a matter of seconds witht the WLM.

And that's just one example.

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve SPECIFICALLY. Think about that and maybe there's a way.

Precha1
08-11-2009, 10:45 PM
For example, if you want to find words that are common to both epistles, or words that are distinct in both epistles, you can do that in a matter of seconds witht the WLM.


Hi Scott,

I was looking to see how many verses in Colossians were actually duplicated in Ephesians. My desire to do this came about as a result of using the WLM to find that roughly 56% of the words were common to both epistles. Rather than specific words, I am looking now to determine the number of verses that are common to both (or duplicated).

Adelphos
08-11-2009, 11:37 PM
Hi Scott,

I was looking to see how many verses in Colossians were actually duplicated in Ephesians. My desire to do this came about as a result of using the WLM to find that roughly 56% of the words were common to both epistles. Rather than specific words, I am looking now to determine the number of verses that are common to both (or duplicated).

There is a way you can quickly narrow it down. It involves several steps, but it's a whole lot faster than wading through it manually.

First, make sure you limit your search range. You can do this by typing on the command line...

l eph-col

the "l" stands for "limits"

Now load words for each epistle into box 1 & 2 in the WLM respectively.

Filter out and remove all words that are not common to both epistles in each listbox.

Now your two listboxes contain only words that are common to both epistles.

You can now use these groups to do a search, and you could do it several ways.

For example, you can save one of the files as an IEL file. You only need the one because you are dealing only with words that are common to both, so they'll both contain the same words, only with different frequency of occurrence.

So now you have one IEL file, and you use that file as the basis for your search.

After performing a search based on this IEL file, you can now uncheck the boxes in the search results for the book that is between Ephesians and Colossians, i.e., Philippians.

Now you can filter this further. I'll leave it there for now. See if you can figure it out from here.

If you have trouble, shoot on back. And please let us know how you fare.

Precha1
08-12-2009, 06:21 AM
There is a way you can quickly narrow it down. It involves several steps, but it's a whole lot faster than wading through it manually.

I'll leave it there for now. See if you can figure it out from here.

If you have trouble, shoot on back. And please let us know how you fare.

This is a tremendous help. I will be working on this later today and will update you on my progress. Thanks alot.

Glenn Weaver
08-12-2009, 11:04 AM
If you set the search limits as "l eph;col", using the semicolon between the two books, you will not have the Philippians hits. The semicolon enables you to have non-contiguous books or sections in a search limit.

Other useful examples might be:
l luk;act
l joh;1jo-rev
l gen 1:1-2:4;joh 1:1-1:18

Adelphos
08-12-2009, 12:17 PM
If you set the search limits as "l eph;col", using the semicolon between the two books, you will not have the Philippians hits. The semicolon enables you to have non-contiguous books or sections in a search limit.

Other useful examples might be:
l luk;act
l joh;1jo-rev
l gen 1:1-2:4;joh 1:1-1:18

Thanks for that. I knew in my mind that could be done, as I remembered doing it before, but I was using a comma instead of the semicolon.

Precha1
12-05-2009, 01:36 PM
Now load words for each epistle into box 1 & 2 in the WLM respectively.

Filter out and remove all words that are not common to both epistles in each listbox.

Now your two listboxes contain only words that are common to both epistles.

You can now use these groups to do a search, and you could do it several ways.

For example, you can save one of the files as an IEL file. You only need the one because you are dealing only with words that are common to both, so they'll both contain the same words, only with different frequency of occurrence.

So now you have one IEL file, and you use that file as the basis for your search.

Now you can filter this further. I'll leave it there for now. See if you can figure it out from here.

If you have trouble, shoot on back. And please let us know how you fare.

Its been a while, but I'm still learning and pressing forward. I need a little more guidance. This is what I have so far:

1. I have set my limits to the books Ephesians and Colossians using the command line "l eph;col"

2. I opened the WLM and generated a primary and secondary word list using the BGT and verse range eph (primary) and col (secondary)

3. I selected words that were not common to both in both lists and deleted them.

4. This gave me a primary and secondary list of 307 words with a frequency of 1748 times. I then saved this file as an inclusion/exclusion file named BGT_Eph_Col_Common.

So far so good. Here are my questions:

1. Now that I have the words that are common to both isolated, how can I use this file to search with?

2. How will isolating the words help in identifying the number of verses that are common to each book?

3. How can I display the results?

In reading through a commentary (which one I am ashamed to say I don't remember) but the commentator shared that 75% of the verses in Colossians were also in Ephesians. My point in this exercise is to see if I can, using BW8, duplicate the results. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Adelphos
12-05-2009, 02:01 PM
1. Now that I have the words that are common to both isolated, how can I use this file to search with?

2. How will isolating the words help in identifying the number of verses that are common to each book?

3. How can I display the results?

In reading through a commentary (which one I am ashamed to say I don't remember) but the commentator shared that 75% of the verses in Colossians were also in Ephesians. My point in this exercise is to see if I can, using BW8, duplicate the results. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

To determine the percentage all you have to do is count how many total words are in Colossians, then divide the number of common words by that total. That will give you the percentage of the words (not verses) in Colossians relative to Ephesians.

To use your file as a search parameter, right click on the command line and choose Insert Word List Filename, and then run your search.

Precha1
12-05-2009, 02:20 PM
To determine the percentage all you have to do is count how many total words are in Colossians, then divide the number of common words by that total. That will give you the percentage of the words (not verses) in Colossians relative to Ephesians.

To use your file as a search parameter, right click on the command line and choose Insert Word List Filename, and then run your search.

Thanks Adelphos,

When I use my inclusion/exclusion file and search Colossians, 95 verses are highlighted. When I do the same, searching Ephesians, 155 verses are returned.

Will using the RVT help at this point get me closer to what I'm looking for and if so just how? I am not too familiar with the RVT at all. Brother, I truly appreciate your forum tutoring. :D

Adelphos
12-05-2009, 03:31 PM
Will using the RVT help at this point get me closer to what I'm looking for and if so just how?

I'm not too familiar with the RVT myself. However, I think you can manipulate the WLM to get what you want, unless I have misunderstood what you want.