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dbielby
06-02-2009, 04:38 PM
Now that BW has some really great resources in it, like Philo, Josephus, Pseudepigraph, and others, I would like to change the way I do word studies. Here's what I want to do and I'm wondering if anyone out there knows how I can set up a search to do this in one click after I punch in the lemma? If so, can you help me get to that point?

1) Identify a noun/verb to study (this week I am doing UPOMONH from 2 Peter 1:6. 2) Search for that verb in a variety of databases: LXX & GNT, Apostolic Fathers, Philo, Josephus, Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha and others that I may want to add in as they become available. I would like to then take the English and Greek text for these verses and add them into one file in my editor. 3) ON top of that I want to be able to pull lexical entries from all my lexicons on the term(s) AND pull the semantic domain words related to the term I am studying so see if the range of words helps add anything to the information. Since I'm good at Greek but NOT great at it, I want to have the english next to anything in greek I pull.

Can anyone assist on this?

Thanks so much.

Michael Hanel
06-02-2009, 05:06 PM
Can you be a bit more specific? Like which parts of this list do you already know how to do or what seems to be the catch? Currently, it's really easy to search across all of the languages, but if you don't know how to do to that, I suppose you'd think it's not possible or not easy. It's also fairly easy to create a lexicon based on words you choose, so I'm not quite sure what you know and don't.

dbielby
06-02-2009, 05:15 PM
Well, the cross version search doesn't seem to be what I want because there are a lot of Greek versions. I just want to search a select group of databases for a noun lemma or a verb lemma.

I typically have the same databases I search, but for different words. So if I could create one search, save it and then pull it up and change the lemma I am searching for that should work.

The word I am working on this week is upomenhs (endurance) from 2 Peter 1:6. I want to search in APM, LXX, GNT, JOM, and several other databases...

I then want to take the results and have them display the English text AND the Greek text (or Hebrew if I search in Hebrew)...and copy them all to the BW editor so that I can peruse them as a whole unit.

What I've been doing is searching one database at a time...copying the results to an editor and then editing those results down. Then I have to do it again for the next database. I do this so many times I'd love to find a way to accomplish this work in one fell swoop. I suspect the graphical search engine could do it but I'm just not good at that.

Does that answer your question enough that you can assist me?

Michael Hanel
06-02-2009, 05:23 PM
Well, the cross version search doesn't seem to be what I want because there are a lot of Greek versions. I just want to search a select group of databases for a noun lemma or a verb lemma.

I typically have the same databases I search, but for different words. So if I could create one search, save it and then pull it up and change the lemma I am searching for that should work.

I'm a bit pressed for time right now, but I think I can answer this one quickly enough. There are two different strategies I'd recommend.

The first is a bit more time consuming at first, but I think it would be beneficial for you in the end. I would set up different tabs according to the different Greek sets you'll be searching. I.e. make on Josephus and have its tab contain the JOS, JOM, JOE; make another ApostFathers, another Philo, etc. When you pick out your word, simply toggle tabs and search that word in each of these tabs. You'll instantly have what you're looking for and the English will be easy to grab, etc. (e.g. you can export the search list)

The second way is the quick way, but maybe not as flexible as the first. I forget if you're using BW8 or 7, but it works in both, but the menus might be slightly different. I'll explain in BW8. In the menu system across the top of the program, select "Search: Cross Version Search Mode: Search all same language versions" If you do a search in Greek, this will then run that search through ALL Greek versions, not just BGT/LXT. A window will pop up and you use that window to toggle to the other versions. Again you can easily export text from the search list.

Let me know if that explanation is sufficient for at least that point of your question.

dbielby
06-02-2009, 05:33 PM
Yes, this will work for now. The cross version search feature would be slicker if one could turn off all the Greek NT databases one doesn't need to look at, or any other databases unnecessary...Do you happen to know which LXX database has the broadest collection of apocryphal books in it?

Thanks again for your help!

Michael Hanel
06-02-2009, 05:38 PM
Yes, this will work for now. The cross version search feature would be slicker if one could turn off all the Greek NT databases one doesn't need to look at, or any other databases unnecessary...Do you happen to know which LXX database has the broadest collection of apocryphal books in it?

Thanks again for your help!

If you were only to have open as display versions those Greek versions you wanted it to search, you could set the option to "Search only same language Display versions" I guess since searching all language versions only brings up a table that tells you what is all there, I don't really consider your question a time-saver. If you search all same language versions, but you're only interested in BGT, but not BNT or GNT, etc., just don't click on it.

As far as which database is best for finding the LXX stuff, you can always check the version ID info and you will find:

about the BGT: "This database is a combination of the BNT and LXT databases. This allows people who want to work with both versions at once to easily do combined searches."

In other words, if you search BGT, you can eliminate searching the BNT and LXT because the BGT version includes both of those together.

Mark Eddy
06-02-2009, 11:18 PM
[QUOTE=dbielby;18351]Do you happen to know which LXX database has the broadest collection of apocryphal books in it? [QUOTE]
Both Greek LXX databases in BibleWorks (LXT and BGT) contain the same text of the LXX. For the English translation LXA has more of the apocrypha than LXE (which actually has very little). Most of the other English translations which contain the apocrypha contain all of the apocrypha, though some translate the Vulgate instead of the Greek text.
Mark Eddy

Glenn Weaver
06-03-2009, 09:53 AM
Hi David,

Here is how I would do it, based upon the information you gave. Perhaps some of these ideas will be helpful to you and how you work in BibleWorks. (The instructions are for BibleWorks 8. Some of this will not apply to BibleWorks 7, though most of it will.)

1) Set up tabs, like Michael Hanel mentioned. In your primary search tab I would include every text that you want to search. For example, with the BGT and BGM as your study/search versions, and the APM, JOM, OPM, and PHM as other texts to search. These other versions will not appear in the Browse Window since they do not contain the same verses as the BGT, but you will be able to search them. Name this tab as "Search".

2) Set up a tab for each of your search/display versions. One tab has the BGT/BGM and your preferred English text. Name it "BGT". Another tab has the APF (not APM) and the APE. Name it "APF". Another tab has the JOS (not JOM) and JOE. Name it "JOS". Add tabs for each of your display versions.

3) In the "Search" tab, set the Cross Version Search Mode to "Search All Same Language Display Versions". This will search your BGT/BGM and the other Greek display versions.

4) Conduct your search in your "Search" tab. The Cross Version Search Results window opens with a list of your search results. Now click on the "BGT" tab. Then click on the "BGM" search results in the Cross Version Search Results window. The result is a display of the BGM search results in the "BGT" tab. After you are finished working in the "BGT" tab you will then click on the "APF" tab, then click on the APM search results in the Cross Version Search Results Window. Do this for all of the versions in the Cross Version Search Results Window.

5) While in each tab, you will want to work through the list of Search Window Verse List verses. Select each version turn, evaluating its usefulness for your purposes. If the verse is not useful, uncheck the checkbox next to the Search Window Verse List verse. Continue working through all the verses. Do this for each tab.

6) Now you will want to copy your verse list + text to the Editor or your word processor. In the Search Window you will want to use the "Copy verse list + text" copy option. But before you copy your text, you will want to configure the copy options for the "copy verse list + text" copy option. Under "Configure Vs List Copy Favorites" you will make the following changes to the copy settings:
--Under "What to copy", select "Checked Verses Only"
--Under "Where to copy the verse list" select your desired destination
--Under "What Versions to include" select "All display versions".

7) For the last two steps, creating lexicon entries and locating the semantic domains, you will use the Word List Manager (WLM). Have your "Search" tab as your active tab. Open the WLM, then Load or Generate a Word List. Select the BGM as your search version, and select "Load highlighted words from last query". Uncheck the "Keep morph codes", and check the box to "Keep Greek accents and Hebrew vowel points". Click "Create List". Select the Greek word in the Word List, then select File "Make Lexicon from selected words (to editor)". Check the boxes of the lexicons you wish to include in your report, and click "OK".

8) Use the WLM to find the semantic domains. Use the settings as listed above, except that you will select "Load words from Louw-Nida domains" instead of the hightlighted words from the last search. Click "Create list". In the box at the bottom left to "Show domains with this string" enter the lemma of the word you are searching, then click "Apply". Now you can select the domains in the boxes above to see the other words contained in the same domains as your search word. Select all words, or only the words that interest you for further research, the click "OK" to add the words to the WLM's word list. You can click on each word to conduct a search on the word in each of your tabs, if you wish, the same as you did for your first search term.

Perhaps some of these ideas will help you to develop a system that best suits how you study.

MortenJensen
06-03-2009, 01:38 PM
Glenn, this post is MOST helpful!

I only have one suggestion to make: what about setting up a set of 'standard tabs' as well as some 'standard search collections'?

I mean, it is actually a bit of job to gain overview over the different text collections in BW.

It would be really helpful with a more user friendly (or dummy-friendly) predefined setup containing:

1: Tabs with cross-search collections.
2: Search collections available from the first green bar in the search pane.

Each user can always rework them or turn them off altogether.

Morten

Glenn Weaver
06-03-2009, 01:47 PM
Hi Morten,

That is a good suggestion. I did create a few sample tabsets that were included one of the Classroom Tips emails a while back (http://www.bibleworks.com/classroom/1_5_tabs/index.html). The problem is that it is hard to know what versions people want to search and display. Creating tabsets and favorite search/display sets isn't hard to do.

I'll see what I can do. And others could post their favorite tabsets to the forum.

Jim Wert
06-04-2009, 11:10 PM
I find it easier to set up one tab.


In it set up all of the morph and regular greek versions that you want as display versions. (This is necessary because if you have only the regular version as display, it will not search the equivalent morph version for a morph search.)
In it also set up all the English versions you want.
For example:
PHM Works of Philo Philo Greek Morph
PHI Works of Philo Philo Greek Regular
PHE Philo Philo English
OPM OT Greek Pseudepigrapha Morphology
OPG OT Greek Pseudeprigrapha
OPE OT English Pseudeprigrapha
APM Apostolic Fathers Morphology Text
APF Apostolic Fathers Greek
APE Apostolic Fathers English Translation
JOM Josephus Greek Morph
JOS Josephus Greek Regular
JOE Josephus Works English
BGM BibleWorks LXX/BNT Morphology Greek Morph NT & OT & Apoc
BGT BibleWorks LXX/BNT Greek Regular NT & OT & Apoc
GRT Greek LXX/NT Transliterated Jim Darlack's contribution -- see Bibleworks Blog to download
NRS New Revised Standard Has NT, more apoc books than NJB or NAB
LXA Brenton LXX with Apocrypha Has more apoc books than NRS
Search version can be any one of the display versions
Set "Cross Version Search Mode" to "Search all Same Language Display Versions"
Display the verse you want (2pe 1 6)
Right click on the word you want in BGT and select "Search on Lemma"

The "Cross Version Search Results" window will display, with one line for each of the morph versions that had a hit.

The results for the version on the first line will be displayed in the regular search window. The search window and the browse window interact as always, so you can display each found verse in turn, with greek, english, and greek morph being displayed. You may wish to change version display order to get that ugly morph version to the bottom.

To display the next version's hits, click on its line in the "Cross Version Search Results" window, and its results will display in regular search window, to be displayed the same way as the first version's, and so on.

I haven't mastered copying the results out -- I defer to the other contributors for that topic.

Cordially,
Jim

dbielby
06-24-2009, 02:31 PM
You suggested this in the response...
1) Set up tabs, like Michael Hanel mentioned. In your primary search tab I would include every text that you want to search. For example, with the BGT and BGM as your study/search versions, and the APM, JOM, OPM, and PHM as other texts to search. These other versions will not appear in the Browse Window since they do not contain the same verses as the BGT, but you will be able to search them. Name this tab as "Search".


When I set up the tab, it seems to give me only one version to search. So if BGT is selected and I try to 'add' BGM, it deselects BGT. So can you explain the steps to doing this part of your instructions?

Thank you so much!!

dbielby
06-24-2009, 02:38 PM
I find it easier to set up one tab.


In it set up all of the morph and regular greek versions that you want as display versions. (This is necessary because if you have only the regular version as display, it will not search the equivalent morph version for a morph search.)
In it also set up all the English versions you want.
For example:
PHM Works of Philo Philo Greek Morph
PHI Works of Philo Philo Greek Regular
PHE Philo Philo English
OPM OT Greek Pseudepigrapha Morphology
OPG OT Greek Pseudeprigrapha
OPE OT English Pseudeprigrapha
APM Apostolic Fathers Morphology Text
APF Apostolic Fathers Greek
APE Apostolic Fathers English Translation
JOM Josephus Greek Morph
JOS Josephus Greek Regular
JOE Josephus Works English
BGM BibleWorks LXX/BNT Morphology Greek Morph NT & OT & Apoc
BGT BibleWorks LXX/BNT Greek Regular NT & OT & Apoc
GRT Greek LXX/NT Transliterated Jim Darlack's contribution -- see Bibleworks Blog to download
NRS New Revised Standard Has NT, more apoc books than NJB or NAB
LXA Brenton LXX with Apocrypha Has more apoc books than NRS
Search version can be any one of the display versions
Set "Cross Version Search Mode" to "Search all Same Language Display Versions"
Display the verse you want (2pe 1 6)
Right click on the word you want in BGT and select "Search on Lemma"

The "Cross Version Search Results" window will display, with one line for each of the morph versions that had a hit.

The results for the version on the first line will be displayed in the regular search window. The search window and the browse window interact as always, so you can display each found verse in turn, with greek, english, and greek morph being displayed. You may wish to change version display order to get that ugly morph version to the bottom.

To display the next version's hits, click on its line in the "Cross Version Search Results" window, and its results will display in regular search window, to be displayed the same way as the first version's, and so on.

I haven't mastered copying the results out -- I defer to the other contributors for that topic.

Cordially,
Jim

Thank you! This sounds like what I want, but I cannot figure out how to get my tab to have more than one version searching in it. Do you know how to do that?

Adelphos
06-24-2009, 02:41 PM
Thank you! This sounds like what I want, but I cannot figure out how to get my tab to have more than one version searching in it. Do you know how to do that?

Right-Click on the Command Line and then choose Cross Version Search Mode.

Glenn Weaver
06-24-2009, 02:46 PM
Hi David,

There is only ever one search version on the Command Line. You can, however, add as many versions as you want to the Browse Window. Enter these versions by entering the code for that version (like BGM) on the Command Line and press Enter on your keyboard. The last version you enter is your search version. You can change search versions by entering the desired search version abbreviation on the Command Line and pressing Enter, even if that version already appears in the Browse Window.

You can search on multiple display versions at the same time by setting your search to a Cross-Versions Search Mode. Select "Search" on the BibleWorks menu, then select "Cross Version Search Mode", then select "Search All Same Language Display Versions". This will enable you to search on all the same-language versions that are enabled (not just visible) in your Browse Window. Assuming you have added the APM and OPM, if the BGM is your search version, you will then be able to search the APM and OPM even though you do not see them in the Browse Window. You will find this at point number 3 in my previous message.

If this isn't clear, please provide a little more information about what you have done so far and I'll see what I can do to explain it better.

dbielby
06-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Right-Click on the Command Line and then choose Cross Version Search Mode.

Ok I got that! Thanks! There are two options that seem interesting there. Search and Display All Same Languages and the other one is Search and Prune. I tried em both and don't see any difference in function. What does the Prune choice allow me to prune?

dbielby
06-24-2009, 03:08 PM
I forget if you're using BW8 or 7,

I'm a BW8.0 user. Thanks Michael for your help on this.

Adelphos
06-24-2009, 03:08 PM
Ok I got that! Thanks! There are two options that seem interesting there. Search and Display All Same Languages and the other one is Search and Prune. I tried em both and don't see any difference in function. What does the Prune choice allow me to prune?

This is from the BW Help File on the Prune option...

This option works like the previous one but if a version does not have any hits it will be removed from the display version list. The search version however is never removed even if it has no hits.

dbielby
06-24-2009, 03:24 PM
That's clear now. Thanks. I somehow missed that in the help file. It would be so sweet if the program would allow one to check the versions in a language that you want to search.

Mark Eddy
06-24-2009, 11:53 PM
That's clear now. Thanks. I somehow missed that in the help file. It would be so sweet if the program would allow one to check the versions in a language that you want to search.
If you want to limit your search to only some of the versions in a given language, make only those desired versions display versions. Then, before you search, choose the "Choose Search Version" option entitled "Search All Display Versions." That way, if you want to search e.g. RSV, NIV, KJV, and DRA, make only those 4 versions your display versions. Then when you "Search All Display Versions" BW will search only those 4 versions.
Of course, if you choose "Search and Display all Same Language Versions," you can always just ignore any versions which you wish to ignore, since each version's results display on a separate line when the "Cross Version Search Results" window comes up.
Mark Eddy

dbielby
06-25-2009, 09:00 AM
If you want to limit your search to only some of the versions in a given language, make only those desired versions display versions. Then, before you search, choose the "Choose Search Version" option entitled "Search All Display Versions." That way, if you want to search e.g. RSV, NIV, KJV, and DRA, make only those 4 versions your display versions. Then when you "Search All Display Versions" BW will search only those 4 versions.
Of course, if you choose "Search and Display all Same Language Versions," you can always just ignore any versions which you wish to ignore, since each version's results display on a separate line when the "Cross Version Search Results" window comes up.
Mark Eddy


This was helpful. I'm starting to understand different ways I can use the Tabs.

dbielby
06-25-2009, 09:51 AM
I'm a bit pressed for time right now, but I think I can answer this one quickly enough. There are two different strategies I'd recommend.

The first is a bit more time consuming at first, but I think it would be beneficial for you in the end. I would set up different tabs according to the different Greek sets you'll be searching. I.e. make on Josephus and have its tab contain the JOS, JOM, JOE; make another ApostFathers, another Philo, etc. When you pick out your word, simply toggle tabs and search that word in each of these tabs. You'll instantly have what you're looking for and the English will be easy to grab, etc. (e.g. you can export the search list)

The second way is the quick way, but maybe not as flexible as the first. I forget if you're using BW8 or 7, but it works in both, but the menus might be slightly different. I'll explain in BW8. In the menu system across the top of the program, select "Search: Cross Version Search Mode: Search all same language versions" If you do a search in Greek, this will then run that search through ALL Greek versions, not just BGT/LXT. A window will pop up and you use that window to toggle to the other versions. Again you can easily export text from the search list.

Let me know if that explanation is sufficient for at least that point of your question.


Now that a lot of ideas have been floated, and I've been reading up and learning how to use the Tabs feature, I went back and set up eleven tabs so that I can do exactly what you suggested here. Plus I have a tab for each of my upcoming sermon series! So I can click once and suddenly I'm in a different world for each focus that I need. Honestly, I am thrilled to be able to do this. Thank you for all the tips AND I hope the BW people read this. If so, they ought to know how excited this pastor in the middle of Illinois is who can now explore the backgrounds of the NT and the applications of the Apostolic Fathers very easily! It put wings to my soul when I first tested this out. It's a GREAT addition to the product.

SCSaunders
06-25-2009, 10:05 AM
....Honestly, I am thrilled to be able to do this. Thank you for all the tips AND I hope the BW people read this. If so, they ought to know how excited this pastor in the middle of Illinois is who can now explore the backgrounds of the NT and the applications of the Apostolic Fathers very easily! It put wings to my soul when I first tested this out. It's a GREAT addition to the product.Infectious attitude. Very infectious. Consider me injected! :D

Adelphos
06-25-2009, 10:41 AM
Now that a lot of ideas have been floated, and I've been reading up and learning how to use the Tabs feature, I went back and set up eleven tabs so that I can do exactly what you suggested here.

In case you weren't aware, you can also move between tabs by typing on the Command Line...

t "mytab_1" (without the quotes), but substitue mytab_1 with with whatever name you have assigned to your tab.

Glenn Weaver
06-26-2009, 09:06 AM
Hi David,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that the tabs are useful to you. I also find them very useful for my own work.

Once you have set up your tabs the way that you want them, I suggest that you save your tabs settings. This way you can create multiple tab sets, back them up so they arent' deleted if you have problems with the program, and you can also load a new tab set if you wish.

To save your tabs, place your cursor on a tab, then right-click to open the context menu. Select "Save Tabs to Disk", then name and save your tab set. You can also open tab sets from the context menu.