PDA

View Full Version : Context & Word Tab Request



Soxfan23
05-21-2009, 04:59 PM
The Context and Word tabs are good ideas, and I am glad to see them introduced into BW8. However, there is a problem I believe that almost makes them useless to more advanced students working in the original languages.

Whenever a search is performed in a morphological version (e.g. WTM or BNM), the lists in the Context and Word tabs only contain the specific forms of a particular noun/verb/particle/etc. In other words, they do not tell you every time the root word occurs, it only tells you the number of times different forms of that word occurs. So for the Hebrew word "house" (bet), if I set a search and limit it to the Pentateuch, the context and word tabs will tell me how many times it occurs in the singular, plural, construct, etc, but it will not simply tell me how many times it occurs, which is honestly the only thing I care about.

This makes the features essentially useless for me. I can see how an introductory student who uses the English text can benefit from this somewhat, but for deep exegesis it might as well have never been included. The purpose of it is to make it easier to highlight themes, see what words occur together, etc, but we are not given the true answers because it doesn't tell us the roots of the words that occur, but only the different forms of the root. I vote they change this, b/c it could be very useful and powerful.

Anybody else with me on this?

Michael Hanel
05-21-2009, 05:49 PM
Anybody else with me on this?

Agreed. I mentioned this in beta-testing, but I'm not sure if it's yet on the "to-do" list. A helpful suggestion to them is always nice to let them know it's something you think would enhance the program.

Ben Spackman
05-21-2009, 06:49 PM
I confess that this is one of the reasons I haven't made much use of this feature yet, and would like to see it work on the lemma level.

The other, related, is that I didn't see an immediate application. Not to say there isn't one, I just haven't seen it yet.

Soxfan23
05-22-2009, 02:39 PM
Agreed. I mentioned this in beta-testing, but I'm not sure if it's yet on the "to-do" list. A helpful suggestion to them is always nice to let them know it's something you think would enhance the program.


Michael, what's the best way to do this? I just figured that they check the forums and when other people agree with one person's requests, they take it into consideration. Having both you and Ben agree to this should get their attention, IMO.

Michael Hanel
05-22-2009, 03:03 PM
Michael, what's the best way to do this? I just figured that they check the forums and when other people agree with one person's requests, they take it into consideration. Having both you and Ben agree to this should get their attention, IMO.

The sticky on this discussion forum has the proper links to follow.



Please use the following links to use if you need a response from the BibleWorks staff:
* Customer Support: Click here (http://www.bibleworks.com/support.html)
* Ideas/Suggestions: Click here (http://www.bibleworks.com/ideas.html)If you want to provide a link to the discussion here in your email, that might show that people are talking about it. Like I said, I know the programmers know about it, it's just a matter of what level of importance they give it on the to-do list. And, of course, remember politeness in your request. :)

Adamsen
05-22-2009, 04:52 PM
The Context and Word tabs are good ideas, and I am glad to see them introduced into BW8. However, there is a problem I believe that almost makes them useless to more advanced students working in the original languages.
...
Anybody else with me on this?

I have not used this tab for the very same reason and would second this feature request. Thank you for bringing your suggestion to the attention of the good BW-folks. :)

Dr. Georg S. Adamsen

MBushell
05-22-2009, 08:50 PM
"...there is a problem I believe that almost makes them useless to more advanced students working in the original languages."


Comments like this are neither helpful, nor true. You will get more work out of people if you don't trash their work first.

Mike

MBushell
05-22-2009, 10:09 PM
Check the latest executable. It adds a context menu option to the context tab lists to turn the morph codes on and off. It will be off by default. Let us know if there are problems resulting from the change.

Mike

Adelphos
05-23-2009, 01:03 AM
Comments like this are neither helpful, nor true. You will get more work out of people if you don't trash their work first.

Amen. I guess I must not be advanced because I find the tab features immensly useful.

In the new update when I do a search in a morph version the status bar blanks out, i.e., no text is displayed in the status bar.

EDIT: It doesn't have to be a morph version. The status bar blanks out on any search.

MBushell
05-23-2009, 01:11 AM
In the new update when I do a search in a morph version the status bar blanks out, i.e., no text is displayed in the status bar.

EDIT: It doesn't have to be a morph version. The status bar blanks out on any search.

I've had reports similar to this a couple of times but have never been able to reproduce it. If it is reproducible, exit the program after it occurs and send me your INI file and context (SWC) file. That way I can reproduce your setup.
Thanks,
Mike

Adelphos
05-23-2009, 01:22 AM
If it is reproducible, exit the program after it occurs and send me your INI file and context (SWC) file. That way I can reproduce your setup.

On the way.

SCSaunders
05-23-2009, 07:18 AM
Comments like this are neither helpful, nor true. You will get more work out of people if you don't trash their work first.Nicely done.

I wanted to comment on that line and the "deep exegesis" one, but I usually reserve my "whack a mole" (not saying yours was; just saying, mine most definitelycertainlyabsolutely would have been) for the first time "fake" posters, the ones who never, ever show up again nor ever give a "thanks" when all is said and done. They pop their head up, sniff, vomit and then head back down into their subterranean lairs forever.

However in this case, this was clearly not their first. Gotta treat "family" different. JMHO.

Greg Ward
05-23-2009, 07:54 AM
I admit I haven't used the Context tab much. Earlier this week I used the WLM for what the Context tab has instantly. It is a nice feature--just got to remember to use it. So many features--so little screen space and so little brain space.

Also, did you notice? :) Our beloved programmer adding customer requested features on Friday night and fixing those features even later on Friday night. That is customer service! Thanks, Mike!

Soxfan23
05-23-2009, 05:25 PM
Comments like this are neither helpful, nor true. You will get more work out of people if you don't trash their work first.

Mike


Mike,

It was not my intent to "trash" anything or anybody. I was not trying to be rude or snarky, but only trying to give a suggestion. I honestly had no ill-intentions. I think Bibleworks 8 is absolutely fantastic, and I love the new features. I even applauded the ideas behind the context and word tab features, I'm only suggesting that there's a way to make them better. When I re-read my post, I didn't get a prideful, arrogant, or snotty tone, so I'm sorry I came across that way to you. The fact that 3 senior members agreed with me without a rebuke indicates that they didn't necessarily take it that way either. Again, I'm very sorry for coming across that way.

I think the tabs are helpful, they can just be more helpful. Perhaps my "almost makes them useless" was too harsh. I was only trying to be honest for me personally. Me Saying "deep exegesis" and "almost useless" does not mean that I'm some outstanding exegete or anything, because I'm not. I just struggled to see how useful they could be to student working in the originals since the lexical form statistics were not available and one could not get the full picture unless they were. So again, I'm sorry.

On another note, thanks for making the update available. I'm going to download it right now and see how it works. You do great service and I am deeply indebted to the folks at Bibleworks. You have no idea how much your program has helped me in my graduate studies. I recommend it to students all the time because of how advanced and intuitive it is, and it's the best deal on the market, hands down and no questions asked.

MBushell
05-23-2009, 08:59 PM
Mike,

It was not my intent to "trash" anything or anybody. I was not trying to be rude or snarky, but only trying to give a suggestion. I honestly had no ill-intentions. I think Bibleworks 8 is absolutely fantastic, and I love the new features. I even applauded the ideas behind the context and word tab features, I'm only suggesting that there's a way to make them better. When I re-read my post, I didn't get a prideful, arrogant, or snotty tone, so I'm sorry I came across that way to you. The fact that 3 senior members agreed with me without a rebuke indicates that they didn't necessarily take it that way either. Again, I'm very sorry for coming across that way.

I think the tabs are helpful, they can just be more helpful. Perhaps my "almost makes them useless" was too harsh. I was only trying to be honest for me personally. Me Saying "deep exegesis" and "almost useless" does not mean that I'm some outstanding exegete or anything, because I'm not. I just struggled to see how useful they could be to student working in the originals since the lexical form statistics were not available and one could not get the full picture unless they were. So again, I'm sorry.

On another note, thanks for making the update available. I'm going to download it right now and see how it works. You do great service and I am deeply indebted to the folks at Bibleworks. You have no idea how much your program has helped me in my graduate studies. I recommend it to students all the time because of how advanced and intuitive it is, and it's the best deal on the market, hands down and no questions asked.

Perhaps I am too sensitive. But beware before saying negative things about someone else children :) BibleWorks is my baby. In the future just say "Boy, it would be cool if ...". It was a good suggestion and I am working on it. Part of speech filter for the list coming later today.

Everyone have a blessed Lord's Day.

Mike

Soxfan23
05-23-2009, 11:08 PM
Mike,

Point taken brother! You have my word that a different approach will be used next time. Thanks again for all you do.

Soxfan23
05-26-2009, 04:17 PM
Mike,

I've had a chance to fool around with the new context tab features for a few minutes. Nice work, brother! I find this much more useful and will certainly use this much in the future. I hope others find it useful as well. What do some of you guys think?

It would be cool also if you did the same thing with the "Words" tab :)

MBushell
05-27-2009, 01:54 AM
Mike,

I've had a chance to fool around with the new context tab features for a few minutes. Nice work, brother! I find this much more useful and will certainly use this much in the future. I hope others find it useful as well. What do some of you guys think?

It would be cool also if you did the same thing with the "Words" tab :)

The words tab is a bit more difficult. I am not sure what you have in mind. It is intended to represent a list of all the words available in the search version, a list that tracks with your input on the command line. I am open to ways to improve it, but would need a better idea of what you have in mind. There is also a problem with size. The context lists are relatively small and amenable to being sorted on the fly. The main word lists are more difficult to manage.
Mike

MBushell
05-28-2009, 03:20 AM
Mike,

I've had a chance to fool around with the new context tab features for a few minutes. Nice work, brother! I find this much more useful and will certainly use this much in the future. I hope others find it useful as well. What do some of you guys think?

It would be cool also if you did the same thing with the "Words" tab :)

These features have been extended to the Words Tab (except the full version word list which functions as a list of all valid search words and needs to stay the way it is).

Mike

Soxfan23
05-29-2009, 01:06 AM
Mike, you are indeed the man. I am leaving to go on a trip tomorrow and won't be back until Monday. I'll try to fool around with the new features after I get back. These are so much more useful now, Mike, and I really appreciate you taking the time to improve these features.

Michael Hanel, Adamsen, Ben,

Have you guys had a chance to check out the new features yet? What do you all think. I've just had time to check them out briefly, but from what I see it looks like exactly what we talked about. Bibleworks is the greatest.