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jimofbentley
05-21-2009, 12:12 AM
Is there a way to keep the Qere readings from appearing on the screen?

Also, is there a way to prevent the Qere readings from being exported to my word processer?

It (at times) is annoying and there are times when I'd prefer if they were not printed.

Thanks.

Adelphos
05-21-2009, 07:53 AM
Is there a way to keep the Qere readings from appearing on the screen?...

On the status bar at the bottom of BibleWorks there is an option for both the qere and kethib.

Andrew Fincke
05-25-2009, 01:33 PM
This is nonsense, Adelphos, and an insult to the customers/users of BbileWorks. There is no way of turning off qere on the screen or when you export text to a Word file. The qere readings with their brackets are hardwired into the Hebrew package you rent from Westminster. Let's be honest about what we're maeketing!

Adelphos
05-25-2009, 03:59 PM
This is nonsense, Adelphos, and an insult to the customers/users of BbileWorks. There is no way of turning off qere on the screen or when you export text to a Word file. The qere readings with their brackets are hardwired into the Hebrew package you rent from Westminster. Let's be honest about what we're maeketing!

I misunderstood the question and simply assumed that he meant searches, which can be turned on/off at the status bar.

Moreover, I don't think misunderstanding a question is an insult to users of BibleWorks, only an insult to an arrogant perfectionist. Morever, I notice that the only time you show up here is to either complain or ask for help, but rarely, if ever, have I ever seen you offer to help anyone else. Perhaps if you did you might make a mistake now and then.

Adelphos
05-26-2009, 12:11 AM
Is there a way to keep the Qere readings from appearing on the screen?

Now that I'v read your question more carefully, the one way I know of to deal with this is export the WTT to text file, remove all the qere readings (should be farily easy with a global replace on everything between brackets), and then recompile into a user database version. That way you would have a clean kethib hebrew file. Vice-versa if you wanted to remove all the kethibs.

Andrew Fincke
05-26-2009, 10:26 AM
The way to do it, Scott, is to tell Kurt Lowery at Westminster to clean up his act and create a neat Hebrew text without bracketed krap all over the place. And when that's done, include the maqefs with the accents that can be switched off in display and exporting. And for people who want qeres, give them the option of having a popup window ask them each time a qere'd verse comes up "Do you want to see the qere?" (Sorry about the misspellings in the last post)

MBushell
05-26-2009, 12:48 PM
The way to do it, Scott, is to tell Kurt Lowery at Westminster to clean up his act and create a neat Hebrew text without bracketed krap all over the place. And when that's done, include the maqefs with the accents that can be switched off in display and exporting. And for people who want qeres, give them the option of having a popup window ask them each time a qere'd verse comes up "Do you want to see the qere?" (Sorry about the misspellings in the last post)

Andrew,

The problem, to the extent that it is a problem, is not with Kurt. They provide the data and we as developers are at liberty to display the text as best suits our program and user base. We have displayed the qere-kethiv in the browse window for some 13 years and to my knowlege no one has complained. This can be changed but it is not a trivial change for technical reasons which I won't go into here. We have hundreds of requests for improvements and changes and a small programming staff. We have to prioritize. The requests that go to the top of the list are the ones that affect a lot of users and those that are relatively easy to implement and are requested in a thoughtful way without complaints and epithets. Unless they affect a large number of users, suggestions offered with words like "krap" (your spelling) and phrases like "an insult to BibleWorks users" go right to the bottom of the heap. I have been known, on countless occasions to stay up all night to implement a change needed by one person, but I have never done it for someone who didn't show proper respect to us or to other users.

You do have the option of creating a new version from the exported WTM text, as others have suggested, with the qere (and anything else you want) removed. It is not hard to do and there are many on this forum who would no doubt be willing to help you (if you asked respectfully). Failing that we will add this issue to our list of development items.

Mike Bushell
BibleWorks, LLC

SCSaunders
05-26-2009, 01:40 PM
Moreover, I don't think misunderstanding a question is an insult to users of BibleWorks, only an insult to an arrogant perfectionist. Morever, I notice that the only time you show up here is to either complain or ask for help, but rarely, if ever, have I ever seen you offer to help anyone else. Perhaps if you did you might make a mistake now and then.Scott,

Chuck Swindoll has a quote in one of his books, the one on Ecclesiastes, "Living Above the Ragged Edge" I think it's called. He got it from his dad I believe. It goes something like, "When you get kicked by a jack@ass, consider the source."

Also FWIW, don't be too surprised if you find out that there are two posters in this thread who are actually one and the same. JMHO.

Scott

Fire away Andrew. As far as I'm concerned, nothing tickles quite like the kick of a certain petting zoo animal.

Adelphos
05-26-2009, 02:06 PM
...As far as I'm concerned, nothing tickles quite like the kick of a certain petting zoo animal...

Chuckle. :cool:

Adelphos
05-26-2009, 03:54 PM
...I have been known, on countless occasions to stay up all night to implement a change needed by one person...

I do think you should give proper credit to Dr. Pepper for your ability to do this! :cool:

Dale A. Brueggemann
05-26-2009, 07:05 PM
We have displayed the qere-kethiv in the browse window for some 13 years and to my knowlege no one has complained.

I vote for retaining the way BW handles qere-ketihib just as it's been all along. I like it this way.

Adelphos
05-26-2009, 08:30 PM
I vote for retaining the way BW handles qere-ketihib just as it's been all along. I like it this way.

Ditto. As I noted above, if anyone wants a database sans qere/kethib they can very easily make one with the VDC.

MBushell
05-26-2009, 09:45 PM
I do think you should give proper credit to Dr. Pepper for your ability to do this! :cool:

Indeed! I am drinking one as I compose this. When congress starts taxing my Dr. Pepper they go too far!

Andrew Fincke
05-27-2009, 12:09 AM
Dear Mike,
Adelphos and Chuck can't be too offended by anything I said, because they've lowered the level of the discussion to humor and sarcasm. But there's no humor in day after day spending three minutes doing what should take 10 seconds: exporting a Hebrew verse to a Word document. That due to the tediom associated with eliminating the brackets. I didn't start the thread. Someone else did. And that person's frustration deserved a more decent response then "Flip the ketiv and kere buttons in the task pane!" If you're going to improve the Hebrew text so it reads like any other version you offer - e.g. the KJV - smooth and uninterrupted, then do it for the author of message 1, not me! If you want to see an uninterrupted Hebrew text, go to the online version from Mechon mamre. They also have MP3 files for people who want to learn the Hebrew text by memory or listen to it as they drive to work or jog.

Adelphos
05-27-2009, 01:03 AM
Hey Andrew...

I sure hope you can help me out. I'm not too clear about a few things, and since you've convinced me that you know so much more than anybody else here, perhaps you could help me.

First off, what is a "clean" or "uninterrupted" text? Please be as detailed as you like. Moreover, all the experts in the field will agree with you on that, right? Especially if they know which side you're on.

Secondly, why is the Qere there in the first place? Does anybody think the Qere reading is the true reading in a specific place or context? Or do only ignoramuses think that may be the case.

Thirdly -- and this one is especially important to me -- how does the Qere/Kethib readings fare with regard to the Masora Magna and the Masora Finalis.

For example, what effect does the Masora have on, say, Psalm 22:17? If you could just give me the references to this that occur in the Masora and how that is affected by the Qere/Kethib, that would really be great.

That's just for starters, Andrew, and I certainly don't want to take your important time, but I really would like to know what the real experts like yourself consider a "clean" or "uninterrupted" text, and what experts like yourself would have to say about the viability of the Qere readings, because I get the impression from you that not one single Qere reading is viable, and hence your "clean" and "uninterrupted" text statements, and I ESPECIALLY would like to know how the Masora Magna and Masora Finalis interacts with the various Qere/Kethib readings.

At the bottom of all of this, of course, is the manuscript(s) you are using as your base. I'm sure that all the real experts like yourself all adhere to the exact same manuscript text, and the exact same text within the manuscript. Right? Please inform me a little about that stuff too, because I'd really like to know the EXACT text that all the experts like yourself consider to be "clean."

I'm sure that all the real experts like yourself don't want to be bothered with the variant Qere/Kethib readings, seeing as how all the real experts like yourself will tolerate only a "clean" and "uninterrupted" text.

Perhaps you could take some of your important time and address these issues for me. I really would appreciate it.

Thanks for your time, Andrew.

jimofbentley
05-27-2009, 06:40 AM
You do have the option of creating a new version from the exported WTM text, as others have suggested, with the qere (and anything else you want) removed. It is not hard to do and there are many on this forum who would no doubt be willing to help you (if you asked respectfully). Failing that we will add this issue to our list of development items.

Mike Bushell
BibleWorks, LLC

Mike, how would I do this?

The only reason I asked in the first place (sorry for starting an argument) is because I find it a nuisance going back and removing the Qere when I copy into my word processer.

Thanks

Adelphos
05-27-2009, 01:39 PM
The only reason I asked in the first place (sorry for starting an argument) is because I find it a nuisance going back and removing the Qere when I copy into my word processer.

I'm working on it. I can't promise how soon I'll have it ready as I'm going through it manually. A macro would be too complicated due to the use of parenthisis in the regular text.

And you didn't start the argument. The person who started the argument complains constantly about BW. Any normal person would not use a program he finds so much fault with.

Anyway, I'll post in the User Created DataBases section when I've completed the file. It may be today; it may be several days from now. Just keep a look out.

Michael Hanel
05-27-2009, 01:44 PM
Anyway, I'll post in the User Created DataBases section when I've completed the file. It may be today; it may be several days from now. Just keep a look out.

Maybe Mike B. can weigh in on this. I'm not sure of a way of distributing such a text. You might have to keep it restricted, like BW users can email you for a copy of it, but you probably shouldn't just post a copy of it. right?

Adelphos
05-27-2009, 01:52 PM
Maybe Mike B. can weigh in on this. I'm not sure of a way of distributing such a text. You might have to keep it restricted, like BW users can email you for a copy of it, but you probably shouldn't just post a copy of it. right?

I don't know why it couldn't be shared with BW users. All I'm doing is removing the qere readings plus the parens around the kethib readings. I intend to name it WTK and associate it with the WTM.

However, I absolutetly don't want to violate any copyright, so someone from BW please do weigh in on this before I post anything.

Adelphos
05-27-2009, 02:14 PM
Oh, I might add...

The ability to create your own version and link it seamlessly into the program is a very powerful feature, and is just one of the many powerful features of BibleWorks.

This feature alone refutes the ignorant assertion that BW does't provide a "clean" or "uninterrupted" text, for BW in fact allows any user to produce whatever text is wanted. The sky is the limit.

SCSaunders
05-27-2009, 04:37 PM
Adelphos and Chuck can't be too offended by anything I said, because they've lowered the level of the discussion to humor and sarcasm.
Actually, Adelphos and "Chuck" brought the conversation up a level or two from this ....
This is nonsense, Adelphos, and an insult to the customers/users of BbileWorks. There is no way of turning off qere on the screen or when you export text to a Word file. The qere readings with their brackets are hardwired into the Hebrew package you rent from Westminster. Let's be honest about what we're maeketing! ... and this ...
The way to do it, Scott, is to tell Kurt Lowery at Westminster to clean up his act and create a neat Hebrew text without bracketed krap all over the place. And when that's done,... and now to this ....

CAPTAIN:
Edelweiss, Edelweiss
Every morning you greet me
Small and white clean and bright
You look happy to meet me
Blossom of snow may you bloom and grow
Bloom and grow forever
Edelweiss,Edelweiss
Bless my homeland forever.

CAPTAIN, MARIA, THE CHILDREN AND CHORUS:
Small and white clean and bright
You look happy to meet me
Blossom of snow may you bloom and grow
Bloom and grow forever
Edelweiss,Edelweiss
Bless my homeland forever

Michael Hanel
05-27-2009, 06:01 PM
I don't know why it couldn't be shared with BW users. All I'm doing is removing the qere readings plus the parens around the kethib readings. I intend to name it WTK and associate it with the WTM.

However, I absolutetly don't want to violate any copyright, so someone from BW please do weigh in on this before I post anything.

I think it's perfectly legit if it's for BW users, but the text would have to be only accessible to them and not for any random joe to download. Perhaps it would be okay if you compiled the text and then zipped up the compiled files (in the databases folder). That way they aren't just in some plain text file that anyone could use. I know there are a million and one ways people can get the Westminster text if they want it, I just didn't want us to get BW in trouble with how we use the text from their program.

Adelphos
05-27-2009, 06:11 PM
Perhaps it would be okay if you compiled the text and then zipped up the compiled files (in the databases folder)

I'll try that to start. If we get a clarification from BW that allows me to release the raw files we can go from there.

I think I might also just give the raw files to BW if they want it so they can distribute it in an update. That way they can also maintain it.

I'm through Judges so far. Hope to have it completed in the next day or two.