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Reactor
04-30-2009, 11:42 AM
Hi guys, I'm hunting for a bible software package that'll help me learn biblical greek, as well as enjoy commentaries and the like. So far, Logos looks to be the go (I'm a Vista user). But, Bibleworks, as far as I can see, is the number one tool for studying the scriptures. The ideal thng would be to buy both, but not being rich, I'm looking at the Scholar's Library instead ;)

So, looking into Logos, I really have no idea how good the included works are. If someone on here would be so kind, I'd love to know how decent they are, or if it even matters at all for a beginner!

Any advice would be hugely appreciated. If Bibleworks is the better thing to use when learning Greek (or even Hebrew), by all means I'd love to know that too.

Adelphos
04-30-2009, 12:46 PM
Hi guys, I'm hunting for a bible software package that'll help me learn biblical greek, as well as enjoy commentaries and the like... Any advice would be hugely appreciated. If Bibleworks is the better thing to use when learning Greek (or even Hebrew), by all means I'd love to know that too.

I don't use Logos very much, as it's wwwaaaayyyy to slow, and in my opinion, with the exception of linking commentaries together, it offers very little.

In any case, if your primary goal is learning Greek and Hebrew, then there is simply no comparison whatsoever. BibleWorks is as far above Logos in this regard as the heavens are higher than the earth.

Kimba
04-30-2009, 01:58 PM
Reactor,

I am a realitively new user to Bibleworks and I must say that I am in awe of what this program can do. There is seldom a day that goes by where I am spending less than 2 hours in it. My only complaint is that the box did not come with 2 24" monitors, but that is a hardware issue that rests with me.

I don't have Logos, and see no need for it because I like to research everything my self before I look at other work.

As far as learning Greek, I have 2 1/2 years of undergrad Biblical Greek, I do translate a lot of scriptures and have been translating as I go. Great tool for that. Great tool for learning as well, and that I have lots to do since most of the Greek words in the NT are used three or less times in the NT.

Kimba

ingosorke
04-30-2009, 02:00 PM
I, too, gave up on Logos due to speed (or lack thereof) and stability, but that was many years ago. Second, Bibleworks is more focused on original language study, which I prefer over a slew of commentaries.

At the same time, I'd stay away from software for a while and learn Greek/Hebrew the old-fashioned way: teacher, textbook, notebook, vocab cards. Whereas computers make you operate in a 2-dimensional world, your brain will appreciate learning through a 3-dimensional process. Software has its place, but it can easily become a crutch instead of a clutch. But ask 5 people on this topic and I suspect you'll get 6 opinions!

Best wishes, happy learning!

Ingo

Michael Hanel
04-30-2009, 02:59 PM
There are two ways I know to learn well Greek well. First is to read a lot of text quickly. Here BibleWorks will save you a ton of time because you can spot check words you don't know really quickly. The second is to read a small amount of text really slowly, learning every nuance of it, checking constructions up in the grammars, looking words up in the lexica (even if you know how to translate it). Here BibleWorks will also help you out not only by the tagged grammars and lexica, but also by giving you a place to write down some of these notes, etc. so you can come back to them at a later time. The process of not just thinking about it, but actually writing down your thoughts is extremely beneficial at making learning take place. Also, use BW to read non-biblical Greek. The only way to really know if you know the language is to read something for which you don't already have a working translation roaming around in your head

MGVH
04-30-2009, 11:05 PM
If you are asking about the texts and resources in each, I've posted a number of comparisons on this website that should be helpful.
ScrollandScreen.com (http://scrollandscreen.com/)

Reactor
05-01-2009, 12:39 AM
Thanks all, I appreciate the solid nuggets of advice! Thanks also MGVH... those links are great. A bit confusing in places, but great anyhow :)

I can't say learning the original languages is my primary reason for buying into some software (though I have the feeling that may change if I do solidly get into it). I also hold biblical theology in high regard, which is why something like Logos still has some appeal.

I currently have a program named Greek Tutor, which I picked up a long time ago, and unfortunately didn't use consistently. As time has gone on I've learned of the importance of the original languages and so whatever I get stuck into, I'm sure I'll stay with (at least, that's the plan!) :)

Perhaps a good course for me would be Logos, Greek Tutor and some good ol' books until I get settled, and then aim for Bibleworks down the track? I'm not sure the speed issue of Logos will worry me- I'm an avid digital artist and am used to waiting for programs to do their thing :D

As a side question, while I'm here... I heard some time ago that the Hebrew we have of the OT isn't the original. Is this true? I'm not sure about the Aramaic, but that's something I heard, which had me unsure of whether it was worth learning.

Philip Brown
05-02-2009, 11:32 PM
I heard some time ago that the Hebrew we have of the OT isn't the original. Is this true?

If your question means, "Is the Hebrew script used in modern Hebrew Bibles different from that used by Moses, David, Isaiah, etc., then the answer is Yes." The Hebrew Scriptures have been written in an Aramaic square script since at least 2nd c. BC. Prior to that a paleo-hebrew script was used.

If your question means, "Is the text of modern Hebrew Bible radically different from the autographs of the aforementioned authors, then the answer is No." The text form we have preserved in masoretic manuscripts is largely reliable.

Adelphos
05-02-2009, 11:41 PM
...As a side question, while I'm here... I heard some time ago that the Hebrew we have of the OT isn't the original. Is this true? I'm not sure about the Aramaic, but that's something I heard, which had me unsure of whether it was worth learning.

We believe by faith that God has preserved his written word for us, and faith is ultimately where the matter must rest. However, there is a great deal of evidence to also substantiate that belief.

In that vein, here's a brief article that may help you along those lines...

http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/veracity_of_the_old_testament.htm

Reactor
05-03-2009, 11:18 PM
Thanks guys, much appreciated.