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View Full Version : How to prevent auto change of search version?



FredGreco
02-28-2009, 11:17 PM
It may likely be that I simply do not know how to configure the correct settings, but I would like some help with search versions. Bibleworks 8 appears to automatically change the default search version (on the command line) based on the last search. Is there a way to stop this? This behavior slows down my work, and is a little annoying. Here is what I mean:



I am looking at a passage in multiple version mode. For example, 2 Kings 18:7, with ESV/NASB/WTT and BGT visible.
My search version is ESV.
I see a word I want to run a search on - perhaps a Hebrew word
I double click the word and it brings up the search, opens the secondary browser window (great!) to the first result with all my versions. The search window shows the WTT results.
The search version is automatically changed to WTT.

So when I close the secondary browser window, I now have the WTT as my search version and search display version. I need to manually fix it to go back to where I was (in this case, ESV). Is there a way to prevent the automatic switch of search version? I realize it may not be possible for the search display version (since that is what was displayed) but I don't know why the (default) search version would automatically change.

Any help is appreciated.

Jim Wert
03-01-2009, 06:32 PM
I hit this problem frequently. I don't know Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, so I want my default display version to be NRS. When I hit the footprints, I want to see the context in the language I can read.
But most of my searches are lemma searches, so I will right click (once the popup gloss tells me that I am where I want to be) and search on the lemma.
And now I have lost the ability to hit the footprints, and see the context in the language I can read.

There are two flags in the Browse options that don't seem to work for me, one of which claims to be the answer to my need. (I document both only because of my felt need to ventilate.) Both BW7 and BW8 behave exactly the same for both of these.
1. (copying from BW8 help)
Maintain search version after lemma search
If this option is checked the search version will not change when you right click on a Greek or Hebrew word and do a morphology lemma lookup. Otherwise the version would switch to the morphology version used for the lemma search.
Whether or not this flag is checked, it switches my search version to the relevant Hebrew or Greek Morph version.
2. (again copying from BW8 help)
Automatically make morphology versions display versions
If this flag is set and you activate a Greek or Hebrew morphology as a search version, it will automatically be activated as a display version. This permits you to do morphology searches while having only the text version displayed. For example, you can do GNM searches but have only the GNT displayed in the Browse Window. For non-Hebrew/Greek versions, activating a version as a search version always adds it to the display list as well. If this flag is not set and you activate a Greek or Hebrew morphology as a search version, it will not be activated as a display version. This permits you to do morphology searches while having only the text version displayed.
Whether or not this flag is checked, it never adds the morph version to the browse display. Doesn't really matter to me, but inaccurate help documents are annoying.

The best way I have found to deal with this problem is:
Hit escape twice (to make sure), type nrs, hit enter, and try to suppress any bad words.

Adamsen
03-02-2009, 07:20 AM
The best way I have found to deal with this problem is:

I don't use the secondary results window that often, but I would not be surprised if this is how it functioned some time ago. It may even be that this problem was encountered and solved some years ago.

A better way that the one you have found would be to report it to the tech support. They will ensure either that the help file is corrected or that the intended behaviour of the program is (re)implemented. I can say that for sure, because I have done so many times.

In my view, the very function of the secondary results window is to leave one's work exactly as is, do something else, and be able to return again and continue. If FredGreco's settings are the culprit, then they are here as well.

So, tell the support people!

FredGreco
03-02-2009, 03:27 PM
Email sent. I would still hope to get some help here.

DavidR
03-02-2009, 09:43 PM
I've just installed the upgrade to BW 8, with the latest downloaded updates, so that I'm using version 8.0.007m.1. I've been annoyed by these morphology issues in the past myself. (I read Greek and Hebrew, but I can't imagine why anybody would want to display the morphology texts.) I've just now tried unchecking the "Automatically make morphology versions display versions" flag, and it does work. I can search on a lemma, get the list of results in the search window, but not have the messy morphology version show up among my display versions.

However, when I click on the "footprints," I am advised that "The current search version is not active as a display version" (just what I wanted!), and asked, "Do you want it activated?" No, I don't; but when I click No, I am left in multi-version mode. The browse version and the search version, apparently, must be the same; browse mode has to pick one of the multiple displayed versions to use, and the only way it can know which one to use is to pick the search version. I wish it were otherwise, but there it seems to be. As Jim indicates, changing the search version back to what you want (and suppressing the bad words!) is the only solution.

The key is the failure of "Maintain search version after lemma search." Setting his flag doesn't work for me either -- doing a lemma search does indeed change the search version, and thus the browse version. This is the issue that the programmers need to address. If it's not really possible to keep the search version from changing after doing a lemma search, then the option flag needs to be eliminated.

Thanks, Fred, for bringing this to the attention of tech support. Let's hope for the best!

FredGreco
03-08-2009, 11:36 PM
Any help?

I submitted to BW support last week, and have not heard anything.

SkipB
03-10-2009, 02:07 AM
The way I understand this, (and I often miss the point, so be patient with me) If you have an English version selected as search version, but then right click on a Greek or Hebrew word (in multiple version display) and perform either a form or lemma search, that search is executed on the version you have just clicked on. That changes your search version. In a lemma search, the search is actually performed on the morphological brother text. When the search of the morphological version finishes, it returns you to the search version, not to the search version prior to clicking on the Greek or Hebrew version. So by not leaving you in the morph version it has preserved the search version, but it can't take you back to the version you had selected before you activated the search. Does that make sense? That's how it works here, and it make sense that it is the way it is meant to work. Am I still missing your point?

DavidR
04-03-2009, 12:04 PM
Just a quick note to say that, since our discussion a few weeks ago, the problem has apparently been addressed! In the latest update (8.0.008b.1), when "Maintain search version after lemma search" is checked and "Automatically make morphology versions display versions" is unchecked in the Browse Window configuration options, I can be in multiple-version mode after an English-language search, right-click on a Greek word in BGT, select "Search on Lemma," and the search is performed in BGM (the search version box briefly changes to BGM), but BGM (the morphology version) is not added to the displayed versions. When I then click on the "footprints", the display changes from multiple-version to BGT (which has become the search version), and I don't get the popup message that "The current search version is not active as a display version."

Yeah, I wouldn't mind having it go back to the English-language version I started out with, but this is definitely better, and very reasonable. So, good work programmers, and kudos to those who raised the question here!

David Rensberger

Dan Phillips
04-05-2009, 09:04 AM
That's good news. Thanks.

DavidR
04-10-2009, 12:45 PM
And it just keeps getting better. As of today's update to v. 8.0.008j.1, when I do a right-click "search on lemma" in multi-version mode with an English-language version designated as search version, the search is done in the ancient-lenguage morphology version, and once the results are displayed the search version goes back to the English version. Perfect! (At least I think so!)

David Rensberger

FredGreco
04-11-2009, 12:58 PM
And it just keeps getting better. As of today's update to v. 8.0.008j.1, when I do a right-click "search on lemma" in multi-version mode with an English-language version designated as search version, the search is done in the ancient-lenguage morphology version, and once the results are displayed the search version goes back to the English version. Perfect! (At least I think so!)

David Rensberger

I don't get this. I am on version 8.0.008n.1 and when I do this the search version is always changed on me to Greek/Hebrew (as the case may be). I have to go back and manually change it every time. It's frustrating enough that I have taken to using a separate tab for searches, otherwise it is very clunky to use.

In fact, I am find that the only real way to get back to my English search version is to perform another search in English this time. Very frustrating.

DavidR
04-11-2009, 03:18 PM
I haven't updated to 008n, and maybe I won't! It's definitely working in 008j. Perhaps when fixing something else in 008n, they broke this again?

SkipB
04-11-2009, 03:56 PM
I tried this with version 008n.1 and worked fine. Of course if your first hit is in a deutero-canonical and the English version does not have the book. Oops, you get just the Greek text displayed. But the search version remains English, just the results list shows the original language you did the lemma search upon. Fred I don't know what you should do next; maybe you should send a link to this thread and a copy of your ini file to support folk. Your problem seems resistant to the fix they have implemented.

DavidR
04-16-2009, 03:39 PM
I've got it working with version 008o.1. Fred, have you checked your option settings (Tools - Options - Flags - Browse Window Configuration Options)? I have "Automatically make morphology versions display versions" unchecked, and "Maintain search version after lemma search" checked. In fact, let me just attach a screenshot of my Browse Window settings. I hope that will help.

FredGreco
04-17-2009, 12:41 AM
David,

I have the same settings. Here is something weird: it works fine for Hebrew lemma searches, but not for Greek. So is I search in John 1:2 on "arche" it makes GNT the search version, and does not come back to English. But if I search in Hebrew on "elohim" (for example) it keeps the English version as the search version.

Is there some setting relating solely to Greek?

DavidR
04-19-2009, 01:02 PM
Hmmm. I assume you're right-clicking on a word in GNT and selecting "Search on Lemma." When I do this, it switches very briefly to GNT, then to GNM to do the search, then back to NRS (the English version I was using). I really can't explain why it's not working for you. I would just check and be very sure you've got an English version selected as your search version before starting the process. I find that it's very easy to accidentally select the wrong search version at the beginning. Beyond that, I'm stumped. :confused:

FredGreco
04-19-2009, 05:18 PM
OK.

I think I have at least figured out what the problem is, and I wonder if anyone else can reproduce it. Here is what I found:

1. View an OT text in multi-version mode (several English and WTT). Set search version to NAU (for example).

2. Set the flag for "Enable Secondary Browse Windows" (see attachment)

3. Right click on a Hebrew word and "Search on Lemma."

4. The Secondary window should pop up. When you close it, the search version should be NAU.

5. Now go to Matthew 1:1. Do the same thing, on a GREEK word in GNT or BGT.

6. The Secondary window will pop up, and when you close it, the search version stays on the Greek version (BGT/GNT) instead of going back to NAU.

If you turn off automatic Secondary Browse Windows, this behavior (#6) does not happen. The search version reverts back to NAU. If you manually open a second browse window, this behavior (#6) does not happen. The search version reverts back to NAU.

Now here is the interesting part - I appear to be getting the right behavior (search version reverting back to what it should) for Hebrew, but not for Greek. So searching on an LXX lemma also changes the search version to Greek on me.

Can anyone else reproduce this behavior? Looks an awful lot like a bug.

DavidR
04-21-2009, 01:43 PM
Fred,

This is good (I know it doesn't feel good!), you've narrowed it down to the precise problem area. When I turn on the automatic Secondary Browse Windows, I get the same behavior -- with one difference: the problem occurs consistently in OT passages searching the Septuagint, but does not always occur in NT passages, even though it's searching the same database (BGT). Sometimes things run smoothly in NT searches; sometimes they go haywire, though in a different way: the secondary browse window does not sync up when I click on different passages in the results list. When that happens, then the search version remains stuck at BGM, not reverting back to NRS (the English version I started with). I do not get this behavior in OT passages.

I think you've got this narrowed down enough to make a bug report of it at http://www.bibleworks.com/support.html. That way it will get to the programmers, who really do need to take a look at it.

DavidR
04-21-2009, 02:05 PM
Fred,

BTW, I knew nothing about automatic Secondary Browse Windows. Thanks for pointing them out; even if they're working a little hinky, it's a great tool!

Every day I realize that there is so much great stuff about this program that I have yet to learn about!

MBushell
04-22-2009, 10:04 PM
I haven't updated to 008n, and maybe I won't! It's definitely working in 008j. Perhaps when fixing something else in 008n, they broke this again?
Such a pessimist. Let's be a little more upbeat now :)
If you guys want real time fixes ya gotta live with occasional back steps.

FredGreco
04-22-2009, 10:22 PM
Such a pessimist. Let's be a little more upbeat now :)
If you guys want real time fixes ya gotta live with occasional back steps.

Fine with me! :)

By the way, the latest version (8.0.008s.1) doe snot fix the problem, though it purported to. Until a fix, I am happily (or at least contentedly) using the workaround of no automatic secondary browse windows.

DavidR
04-23-2009, 08:29 PM
Well, in the current version 008w.2, it does seem to be properly retaining English search versions, even with automatic secondary browse windows, in both Hebrew and Greek, in both OT and NT. I find that the secondary browse windows do not sync with the verse I click on in the main results window, which I presume is the desired behavior -- the secondary browse window stays with the original verse from which you initiated the lemma search, while the main window lets you trot through your search results, but goes back to your original English search version when you close the 2ndary window.

FredGreco
04-24-2009, 04:41 PM
Well, in the current version 008w.2, it does seem to be properly retaining English search versions, even with automatic secondary browse windows, in both Hebrew and Greek, in both OT and NT. I find that the secondary browse windows do not sync with the verse I click on in the main results window, which I presume is the desired behavior -- the secondary browse window stays with the original verse from which you initiated the lemma search, while the main window lets you trot through your search results, but goes back to your original English search version when you close the 2ndary window.

I have the exact opposite behavior. When the Secondary window opens, the search version flashes between the GNT and ESV (for example). It shows ESV (the English version at the start of the search) as the search version while the Secondary Window is open and as soon as I close the Secondary window, it makes the search version the GNT (which is what I don't want, and what is not supposed to happen).

MBushell
04-24-2009, 07:41 PM
A little history may help to illuminate the problems with the secondary browse windows. The secondary windows preceded the Search Pane tabs and the Analysis Pane Browse tab. The bottom line is that there are too many fetures competing for control of the search version. It got even worse with BW8 when the search version was disconnected from the search results list. The original idea when we added the tabs was to get rid of the secondary windows and replace them with something better, namely the tabs. That has worked well, I think. I even tried a couple of times to remove the secondary window option entirely. That is still my preference. But any time we remove anything, and I mean anything, we get complaints and heartfelt pleas to put it back. So the secondary windows were put back, grudgingly. But we strongly encourage users to take advantage of other ways to manage multiple views. Trying to make them work without colliding with other features that share the same purpose, is difficult amd may never work pefectly. Put another way, problems with the tabs have a very high priority. Secondary window problems are, well, secondary.

Mike

SkipB
04-24-2009, 10:59 PM
The one reason I would like to see secondary windows hang around is very selfish I am afraid. When working through the Hebrew text on a classroom projector. I put up a full screen secondary window on the projector, while I have the main program screen showing on my laptop. The text is all I project, but I have all other features at my fingertips. While the class looks at the displayed text I can reassure them with statistics about difficult forms they will not encounter often. It keeps them motivated. The secondary window is just handy to put on the extended desktop. Now if there is a better way to do this, tell me please, and you can take my secondary window away.

FredGreco
04-25-2009, 01:22 AM
A little history may help to illuminate the problems with the secondary browse windows. The secondary windows preceded the Search Pane tabs and the Analysis Pane Browse tab. The bottom line is that there are too many fetures competing for control of the search version. It got even worse with BW8 when the search version was disconnected from the search results list. The original idea when we added the tabs was to get rid of the secondary windows and replace them with something better, namely the tabs. That has worked well, I think. I even tried a couple of times to remove the secondary window option entirely. That is still my preference. But any time we remove anything, and I mean anything, we get complaints and heartfelt pleas to put it back. So the secondary windows were put back, grudgingly. But we strongly encourage users to take advantage of other ways to manage multiple views. Trying to make them work without colliding with other features that share the same purpose, is difficult amd may never work pefectly. Put another way, problems with the tabs have a very high priority. Secondary window problems are, well, secondary.

Mike

I can appreciate that, and I am more than willing to live with a "workaround" if secondary browse windows are not a priority.

But I would respectfully point out that the tabs are nowhere near as robust as any other program with tabs (IE, Firefox, etc.). Not being able to name tabs, for example, makes it very impractical to use them on a multiple session basis. Not being able to use keystrokes to navigate between tabs makes them more difficult to switch between, etc.

I am not saying that tabs need to be perfect, but it would help people to give up what they have been using as useful functionality if the new functionality was either full-featured, or more detail was given (i.e. "we are working toward naming of tabs, etc.")

Michael Hanel
04-25-2009, 10:08 AM
But I would respectfully point out that the tabs are nowhere near as robust as any other program with tabs (IE, Firefox, etc.). Not being able to name tabs, for example, makes it very impractical to use them on a multiple session basis.


Well at least this one is on its way to being solved if you check out the post (http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3796) on this feature being added. :)

FredGreco
04-25-2009, 09:21 PM
Well at least this one is on its way to being solved if you check out the post (http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3796) on this feature being added. :)

Michael,

This is VERY nice. It basically eliminates the need for the secondary browser window entirely - with one really small caveat.

It would be WONDERFUL if I could go to a new tab with a keystroke, and that would make it easier to search in a different language. Don't get me wrong: this tab feature is incredible. But it would be even more useful if I could get to my "renamed tab" (I can already see my tabs now (ESV, GNT, WTT, etc) with a key-combination.

I think if you could do that, you could eliminate the secondary window entirely.

Jim Wert
04-26-2009, 06:28 PM
It would be WONDERFUL if I could go to a new tab with a keystroke, and that would make it easier to search in a different language. Don't get me wrong: this tab feature is incredible. But it would be even more useful if I could get to my "renamed tab" (I can already see my tabs now (ESV, GNT, WTT, etc) with a key-combination.

Note in BW help (under command line shortcuts, not under TABS):
t # "tabset" sets the current context tab to the specified tab number. The first tab is number 1.

This means you still need to know the underlying tab number, but that shouldn't be too difficult for someone who can handle the basic complexity of BW.

DavidR
04-27-2009, 04:20 PM
Thanks, Jim. Going to tabs with a keystroke is something I've been wanting to do too. This is helpful, although it only works if you're already on the command line. Something like Ctrl+# to take you to a tab number from anywhere in the BW window would be even handier, IMO.

Jim Wert
04-27-2009, 06:58 PM
This is helpful, although it only works if you're already on the command line. Something like Ctrl+# to take you to a tab number from anywhere in the BW window would be even handier, IMO.

Yes, that would be nice, but it is easy to get to the command line (Ctrl) and I'm happy with the Ctrl t # ability that BW gives us.
I guess that is actually 5 or 6 key strokes.
(Ctrl t space # or ## enter)

Regards,
Jim

FredGreco
05-01-2009, 06:28 PM
For those that are interested, the new update (8.0.009.g.1) fixes all the problems I indicated in this thread. The search version is retained in Greek as well as Hebrew.

Many thanks to Edward from the BW staff!

calvary
05-02-2009, 04:42 AM
Okay, forgive me for being a dinosaur, but pleeeeeeease don't take out the secondary browse window option. I use it constantly.

I'm begging..... :D

Dave

calvary
05-02-2009, 06:52 PM
On second thought, maybe someone can explain to me how having the multi-tab feature can replace the need for a secondary window. I was fooling around trying to see how it could, and couldn't. I'd love to adapt to a new way if it's easier and more efficient.

Dave