PDA

View Full Version : BibleWorks 8 - Word Statistics Listbox Removed?



J Kendall
01-16-2009, 08:02 AM
In earlier versions of BibleWorks, I've always made significant use of the Word Statistics Listbox which could optionally be displayed in the Search Window.

As far as I can find, the nearest thing to it in BW8 is the Wildcard Expansion of the Command Line section in the Words Tab of the Analysis Window. However this really does not have the same functionality.

Before I trouble the folks at BibleWorks with a request to restore this feature, can anyone confirm that it really is missing?

Thanks,

John
--
John Kendall
Cardiff
Wales

jfidel
01-16-2009, 08:48 AM
Hi John,

If you select Words in the analysis box and search on a lemma, does this provide you the information you are looking for?

bshauger
01-16-2009, 10:01 AM
Hi John:

I could be mistaken and I am not at my BWW machine but I thought I saw the List box info over in the Analysis area on one of the tabs now.

J Kendall
01-16-2009, 10:29 AM
If you select Words in the analysis box and search on a lemma, does this provide you the information you are looking for?

No, I'm afraid not, as I indicate above. In BW7's Word Statistics List Box, the data is persistent and you can click on any of the entries one after the other. Only one initial search is required. In the Wildcard Expansion of the Command Line section in the Words Tab of the Analysis Window, if you click on a word, the data isn't persistent. Only the entry you clicked remains. As far as I can figure, this means that you have to repeat the search to recover the full set of data. It makes what was once an easy task so much more laborious.

Sorry if this seems a bit exotic, but I've found the Word Statistics List Box to be a useful tool for a number of odd tasks (e.g. producing worksheets with verses containing selected forms of -μι verbs or checking the accents on various forms of a word). Of course, there are other ways of carrying out such tasks, but the Word Statistics List Box was always quick and easy.


I could be mistaken and I am not at my BWW machine but I thought I saw the List box info over in the Analysis area on one of the tabs now.

As I mention above, it's not quite the same tool and, unless I've misunderstood it, its a lot less convenient to use.

Thanks for your input.

John

Ken Neighoff
01-16-2009, 11:06 AM
I am not sure if this is what you are looking for, but on the command line, if you type in English, Greek, or Hebrew, a pop up box appears for me under the command line, that shows the spelling and the number of times that the word appears. In BW7 this used to be a window all by itself, now it appears as a pop up window under the command line.

J Kendall
01-16-2009, 11:50 AM
Hi Ken,

No, I'm afraid it's not the same thing. It's a nice feature and could be used for such tasks, but it would require repeated searches. From a single search, the Word Statistics List Box displayed a persistent set of data from which you could select individual results without repeating the search.

Thanks anyway.

John

SCSaunders
01-16-2009, 12:33 PM
Hi Ken,

No, I'm afraid it's not the same thing. It's a nice feature and could be used for such tasks, but it would require repeated searches. From a single search, the Word Statistics List Box displayed a persistent set of data from which you could select individual results without repeating the search.

Thanks anyway.

JohnJohn,

Based on what I've been able to determine, I have BW7 on one computer and BW8 on another, both Ken and you are correct.

First - In the Online Help, The "Word Statistics List Box" is a part of "The Search Window" chapter in version 7, but not in version 8. If you run a search in 8, it shows up, and though the link takes you to "The Search Window" chapter, nothing is mentioned.

Second - When you begin to type on the command line in both versions, the exact same list shows up. In version 7 it's the full list and in its own scalable, permanent box. In version 8 it's a section of the same list, located where Ken mentioned.

Third - Once you run the search, you are correct, the list box does not remain.

Finally - Since what the list provided was essentially cognates, the wildcard "*" option is probably the closest. But as you mentioned, not the same as before.

My conclusion, it's probably gone, not exactly the same as it was in version 7.

Scott

J Kendall
01-16-2009, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the confirmation, Scott. I'll make a request once the current busyness has calmed down for the BibleWorks staff.

John

SCSaunders
01-16-2009, 12:44 PM
Thanks for the confirmation, Scott. I'll make a request once the current busyness has calmed down for the BibleWorks staff.

JohnSounds cool bro.

Ken Neighoff
01-16-2009, 03:21 PM
I do not know if it is completely gone in BW8, if you open the "Words" tab in the "Resource" section, then as you type the list updates and changes. The only thing it does not have is the accent marks.

Michael Hanel, on the blog site, http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/ writes about the word manager. See the blog dated December 16, 2008. Maybe this will help some.

Michael Hanel
01-16-2009, 03:56 PM
I do not know if it is completely gone in BW8, if you open the "Words" tab in the "Resource" section, then as you type the list updates and changes. The only thing it does not have is the accent marks.

Michael Hanel, on the blog site, http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/ writes about the word manager. See the blog dated December 16, 2008. Maybe this will help some.

Ken, it should have accents if you are doing accent sensitive searching, but by default it would not.

Ken Neighoff
01-16-2009, 04:00 PM
Thanks Michael. I had the accents turned off.

J Kendall
01-16-2009, 04:12 PM
Hi Ken. I am indeed aware of this, but as I mentioned in my second post above, it doesn't function in the same way as BW7's Word Statistics List Box. I guess it's not easy for folk using BW8 and who didn't use this facility in BW7 to appreciate what I'm getting at.

The appearance of accents in the list isn't necessary. The issue is that the list stays in place when you click on any of its entries to view the results in the Search Window. This means that you can click on as many of the entries as you wish without repeating the initial search. The list that you mention in the BW8 Words Tab (the new Wildcard Expansion of the Command Line) does not behave in this way.

Sorry if I've not been sufficiently clear. I really do appreciate your desire to help. Thanks.

John

Ken Neighoff
01-16-2009, 04:20 PM
I did not use this Word List Box in BW7 very often. I mainly used it to help me personally in spelling Hebrew and Greek words in preparation for tests.

Greg Ward
01-16-2009, 08:31 PM
John,
I do see what you're saying is the difference between the BW7 Word Statistics List Box and the BW8 Words tab Command Line Wildcard Expansion. The difference when a word in the list is clicked may or may not be intentional--we'll let the programmers tell us that. I don't recall ever using the funcion in BW7. Just from 2 minutes of play I can see that you miss it.

But a couple questions about how you used the BW7 feature:
1) In BW7, I do a .read* search in the NAU and get the word forms in the Word Statistics List Box. You're right it is very easy to narrow down the seach to any one of the particular forms and then jump between them. If you wanted to go back to the full wildcard verse list again, how would you choose to pull it up? (There's more than one way--what did you do?)
2) How did you make use the Word Statistics List Box? English wild card seaches? Original language form seaches? what?

Thanks for sharing.

Greg Ward
01-16-2009, 09:51 PM
John,
Another (longer) way to have the same function as the BW7 Word List Statistics Box is to use the Word List Manager.
After a search in BW open the Word List Manager (BW8/Tools/Analyze Text/WLM) and load/import from the last query.
Shorter: I couldn't find a right click menu in the Search List window for this, but I did find that a right click in the Analysis window, Words tab-Wildcard Expansion of CL window would allow one to send the words to the WLM. Once in the WLM you can double click to run search on the words individually.

J Kendall
01-17-2009, 05:56 AM
But a couple questions about how you used the BW7 feature:
1) In BW7, I do a .read* search in the NAU and get the word forms in the Word Statistics List Box. You're right it is very easy to narrow down the seach to any one of the particular forms and then jump between them. If you wanted to go back to the full wildcard verse list again, how would you choose to pull it up? (There's more than one way--what did you do?)
2) How did you make use the Word Statistics List Box? English wild card seaches? Original language form seaches? what?

Hi Greg,

1) Given my purposes, I'd probably not need to do this, but if necessary I'd use three keystrokes Escape, the Up Arrow and Enter.
2) Almost exclusively for original language work and relatively simple tasks related to the production of teaching materials. I briefly explain a couple of uses in posts #4 of this thread.



Another (longer) way to have the same function as the BW7 Word List Statistics Box is to use the Word List Manager.
After a search in BW open the Word List Manager (BW8/Tools/Analyze Text/WLM) and load/import from the last query.
Shorter: I couldn't find a right click menu in the Search List window for this, but I did find that a right click in the Analysis window, Words tab-Wildcard Expansion of CL window would allow one to send the words to the WLM. Once in the WLM you can double click to run search on the words individually.That, Greg, is a stroke of genius. It's not as neat as the Word List Statistics Box, but it does the job. Well ... it will do once there's a fix for a strange bug in the process. Greek text gets exported to the WLM in reverse! English and Hebrew work fine.

I can't seem to attach a file with a screenshot at the moment so I'm going to log out and try again.

Thanks so much for your help.

John

J Kendall
01-17-2009, 06:13 AM
I did find that a right click in the Analysis window, Words tab-Wildcard Expansion of CL window would allow one to send the words to the WLM. Once in the WLM you can double click to run search on the words individually.


It's fine for Hebrew and English, but presently broken for Greek. See the attached screenshot for the problem with the Wildcard Expansion of the Command Line's export to the WLM. (The search was on γίνομαι.)

I'm using the latest update: 8.0.006a.1.

I'm away from the PC for the rest of the day and won't be able to interact further. I'll report the bug on Monday.

Thanks again Greg.

John

Adamsen
01-17-2009, 07:17 AM
In earlier versions of BibleWorks, I've always made significant use of the Word Statistics Listbox which could optionally be displayed in the Search Window.

As far as I can find, the nearest thing to it in BW8 is the Wildcard Expansion of the Command Line section in the Words Tab of the Analysis Window. However this really does not have the same functionality.

Before I trouble the folks at BibleWorks with a request to restore this feature, can anyone confirm that it really is missing?

Thanks,

John
--
John Kendall
Cardiff
Wales

Have you checked the Stats-tab in the Analysis Window? To me it seems to offer the same, yes, more functionality than the Stats window in BW7 did. The What's New in BibleWorks 8-page also states that BW8 offers enhanced functionality.

Georg

tcblack
01-17-2009, 07:52 AM
@Adamsen: Unfortunately the stats tab is a completely different set of Data than that to which John is referring.

@J Kendall: I'd go ahead and submit your request now, I would assume it would just stack up in the que at this point; but having it there should ensure that it is approached in the order it was received so to speak.