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View Full Version : the WCS in the X-Refs....and M'Cheyne for Daily Readings



Bennett B. Wethered
01-10-2009, 04:26 PM
As I poke about my new BW8 (and get my initial settings in place), I see that the TSK is now accessed by way of the X-Refs (a kind of X-Files, eh?). As I look at the drop-down options, I see the last one listed as "WCS |xrefs from WCS." - I have had some conversations with Edward, of the BW staff, about adding the Westminster Standards (WCF,WLC,WSC), which have been indexed for Scripture index purposes, so that, while in a verse of Scripture, it can be seen if that verse is listed as a reference for any part of these confessional standards. I have looked on a couple of verses that I know are referenced in different parts of the Westminster Standards, and it comes up saying [no data for this verse]. Is this something 'on the way,' currently an empty shell, into which you'll be adding the data for a future update? I hope so (otherwise, I hope you can show me what I'm doing wrong :o).

Another request. You have added Bagster's Daily Light Scripture readings. :rolleyes: Has there been any thought to adding early 19th c. Scot Robert Murray M'Cheyne's Calendar for reading through the Word of God in a year? Rather daunting reading, with the OT once, and NT and Psalms twice (!) in one year, but of rich benefit.

I am reminded of a marvelous quote about Scripture reading/study from our brother Charles Haddon Spurgeon, where he said that "It is blessed to eat into the very soul of the Bible until, at last, you come to talk in Scriptural language, and your spirit is flavoured with the words of the Lord, so that your blood is Bibline and the very essence of the Bible flows from you."

At our church we have distributed the brochure from Banner of Truth that lists the M'Cheyne reading schedule. I'd love to see BibleWorks (if you can) add M'Cheyne's reading schedule as an option.

MBushell
01-10-2009, 05:31 PM
As I poke about my new BW8 (and get my initial settings in place), I see that the TSK is now accessed by way of the X-Refs (a kind of X-Files, eh?). As I look at the drop-down options, I see the last one listed as "WCS |xrefs from WCS." - I have had some conversations with Edward, of the BW staff, about adding the Westminster Standards (WCF,WLC,WSC), which have been indexed for Scripture index purposes, so that, while in a verse of Scripture, it can be seen if that verse is listed as a reference for any part of these confessional standards. I have looked on a couple of verses that I know are referenced in different parts of the Westminster Standards, and it comes up saying [no data for this verse]. Is this something 'on the way,' currently an empty shell, into which you'll be adding the data for a future update? I hope so (otherwise, I hope you can show me what I'm doing wrong :o).


We will soon be adding the Westminster Standards reformatted as indexed BW resources. I can't say when though. Our plates are kinds full right now. But we have a lot of nice additions planned for 2009, most of which will be free to BW8 users, and some to BW7 users.

At some point we'll have to rewrite the Resource Summary window. It's starting to get congested.

Hope you like the new features. Some are pretty cool.

Mike

Bennett B. Wethered
01-10-2009, 06:16 PM
Michael, thank you so much for the reply. As I said, it looked like the empty WCS is waiting to be filled with info. :D

Also, as I had said to Edward on the phone, I'd love to see the other Reformed confessions (The 3 Forms of Unity: Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, Canons of Dordt, some of which have scripture verse support, similar to the WS) added, as well.

Any thoughts on M'Cheyne? As a dyed-in-the-wool (tartan, of course) Presbyterian, I'd love to see the laddie added to the mix! :)

Michael Hanel
01-10-2009, 06:24 PM
Michael, thank you so much for the reply. As I said, it looked like the empty WCS is waiting to be filled with info. :D

Also, as I had said to Edward on the phone, I'd love to see the other Reformed confessions (The 3 Forms of Unity: Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, Canons of Dordt, some of which have scripture verse support, similar to the WS) added, as well.

Any thoughts on M'Cheyne? As a dyed-in-the-wool (tartan, of course) Presbyterian, I'd love to see the laddie added to the mix! :)

As helpful as some of those resources would be, there's also a danger to make BibleWorks into ReformedWorks or PresbyterianWorks (no worries, I'd choose to make it LutheranWorks were it up to me :p). A lot of those resources you mention are best done by users as they are not essential to the study of the Biblical texts themselves as such.

Bennett B. Wethered
01-10-2009, 07:06 PM
Michael H. (not Michael Bushell, from whom I still hope to hear a response to my 2nd e-mail :)), as adjunct tools, supplements to the text, I'd be happy to see all manner of Protestant (though a dedicated Protestant Christian myself, it might be thought possible [not my call] to attach the Roman catholic Catechism, if it had similar scripture verse support :rolleyes:) confessions added.

I own a harcover of Concordia: The Lutheran Confessions, in which are a number of catechisms, formulae, articles which could be referenced at the verses they cite in Scripture. The Anglican Church's 39 Articles are another example.

As the words, verses, books of Scripture are used in preaching, teaching, catechising, and apologetics, it can be helpful to make clear the connections we make to God's Word, in our confessional statements (since such are the synopses of the Word to which we're committed), so as to better use and teach both. If possible, BibleWorks can be helpful toward that end.

Michael Hanel
01-10-2009, 07:19 PM
As the words, verses, books of Scripture are used in preaching, teaching, catechising, and apologetics, it can be helpful to make clear the connections we make to God's Word, in our confessional statements (since such are the synopses of the Word to which we're committed), so as to better use and teach both. If possible, BibleWorks can be helpful toward that end.

I don't deny their utility, obviously I subscribe to the Lutheran variety of confessions. My point was only that users can put together stuff like this with their time and energy while BibleWorks programmers focus on other tools that are above and beyond our skill level. There are already about 4 resources (various Reformed confessions, the Book of Concord, Canons of the Council of Orange, and the Birmingham Amended Statement of Faith) that have been put together by various users on the BibleWorks blog (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?page_id=151).

Adelphos
01-10-2009, 07:31 PM
My point was only that users can put together stuff like this with their time and energy while BibleWorks programmers focus on other tools that are above and beyond our skill level.

Agreed. Spending time on these resources would detract the programmers' time on other important stuff.

Bennet, here is a link for M'Cheyne's Daily Calendar Readings --

http://www.mountzion.org/text/DailyBibleReading.pdf

This would be something that you or others could format for use in BW.

Michael Hanel
01-10-2009, 07:39 PM
Agreed. Spending time on these resources would detract the programmers' time on other important stuff.

Bennet, here is a link for M'Cheyne's Daily Calendar Readings --

http://www.mountzion.org/text/DailyBibleReading.pdf

This would be something that you or others could format for use in BW.

The only thing that would have to be tweaked is that you would have to add verse numbers after chapters. The BW tool that hotlinks Bib references (I believe) doesn't like Mat 1, Mat 2, etc. it prefers Mat 1:1-25, Mat 2:1-23, etc. (but you could try it out to see if it worked the way it is). I've seen the list on other websites too in HTML or DOC format if PDF is too cumbersome.

Bennett B. Wethered
01-10-2009, 08:57 PM
Brothers, it's a dangerous thing for a fellow like me to ask for a particular feature or tweak. Someone might mistake me for someone volunteering....

I have no computer programming knowledge/skill whatsoever. I am tossing out ideas to others, so that they, whether BW staff or skilled users, if they agree that these could be helpful features, can do the programming 'grunt' work to get the item in the program.

I'd love to see lots of confessional statements in BibleWorks, but only those which reference scripture verses (often referring to them as "proof texts"), linked to those verses throughout Scripture and referenced therein. I have no interest (no "Reformed,""Presbyterian" agenda :cool:) in listing confessions for their own sake, simply as a resource. It's the Scripture verse connection which connects it to BibleWorks for me.

Adelphos: I only referred to M'Cheyne Calendar because I saw Bagster in BW. I am already happily familiar with M'Cheyne, and would love to see him in BW. Unfortunately, due to my programming ignorance, someone else would need to do the work to get him there :o.

Adelphos
01-10-2009, 11:03 PM
Adelphos: I only referred to M'Cheyne Calendar because I saw Bagster in BW. I am already happily familiar with M'Cheyne, and would love to see him in BW. Unfortunately, due to my programming ignorance, someone else would need to do the work to get him there :o.

That's why I use e-Sword and other programs with BW. I set up e-Sword and other programs in the ELM and then whenever I'm at a verse when I need something in one of those resources, I simply right-click on the verse in BW and the options pop up allowing me to look it up in these external resources.

No Bible pergram out there that I've ever seen allows you to move through the Bible as fast as BW, as well as consult the original languages. So I use BW as a sort of command center, and all the others are only accessed as needed.

Trajan
01-12-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm not sure I understand - although I want to! My version of BW7 has the Westminster Standards in it. If I recall, it was a user add on that I installed. (If that is correct) would that still be usable in BW8? Are the Westminster Standards "requested" in this thread something different/more?

Bennett B. Wethered
01-12-2009, 12:07 PM
Dear Trajan, I'm glad you're asking about the details of what I'd like to see in BibleWorks. :)

Yes, the Westminster Standards (the Confession of Faith, the Shorter and Larger Catechisms) are (and have been for a few iterations of BW) listed as an English language option in BW. The way they can be viewed is by choosing that as a viewing option (made even easier, separately in BW8, listed under Miscellaneous and the scripture proofs found in the X-Refs)), and looking through the various sections.

As mentioned, the Westminster Standards have scripture proofs for all 3 parts (as do a number of other catechisms and confessional statements). What I would like to see is the ability, while in the Biblical text, to quickly see if that particular text is cited as a support/proof text for some part of the Standards (a Scripture index to the WS was created by OPC pastor Stephen Pribble, and is now incorporated into the copy of the Standards that the OPC publishes), and which section cites it. This could be noted in the analysis window, linked to a particular translation (as had been the case with the TSK to the KJV and the NAS to its notes, in BW7). This way, when researching for preaching or teaching from a particular text, I can (and, as a confessional Protestant, I want to) easily see, connect, and make note of this connection, showing how this part of God's Word supports a particular Christian doctrine.

I can work without this. It would, if its not too much of a hassle (and I can be of no help :rolleyes:), be a benefit for me and others, however. While arbitrary choices would need to be made as to which confessional statements this would be done for, I hope that that fact would not bar the addition of this. - I hope I have well described what I'm looking for. :)

Bennett B. Wethered
01-12-2009, 04:37 PM
Thanks for the offer, Pasquale.

From what Michael Bushell said above ("We will soon be adding the Westminster Standards reformatted as indexed BW resources. I can't say when though. Our plates are kinds full right now.") it doesn't look as though that will be necessary; all (not just me for personal use ;)) will be able to benefit from the Westminster Standards proof text references.

Michael Hanel
01-14-2009, 12:36 AM
Thanks for the offer, Pasquale.

From what Michael Bushell said above ("We will soon be adding the Westminster Standards reformatted as indexed BW resources. I can't say when though. Our plates are kinds full right now.") it doesn't look as though that will be necessary; all (not just me for personal use ;)) will be able to benefit from the Westminster Standards proof text references.

You must be using the right magic genies. Did you see the new Confessions updates?

Bennett B. Wethered
01-14-2009, 07:49 AM
Yes, I have and have loaded them (and they still don't work :o). See my "X-Refs not working thread."

Ken Neighoff
01-14-2009, 10:03 AM
They work for me, under Resources/Backgrounds

Bennett B. Wethered
01-14-2009, 11:49 AM
Dear Ken, I'm not sure to what you refer . When I go to Resources, then Backgrounds, there are 4 resources, by Charles, James, Schaff, and Rodkinson. I don't think any of these have been or will be part of the X-Refs listing. :o

Michael Hanel
01-14-2009, 11:52 AM
Dear Ken, I'm not sure to what you refer . When I go to Resources, then Backgrounds, there are 4 resources, by Charles, James, Schaff, and Rodkinson. I don't think any of these have been or will be part of the X-Refs listing. :o

No they're not part of X-ref listing, but they show up in the Analysis Window when you're on one of the verses to which they refer, much like a grammar or lexicon would.