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Eric
12-18-2008, 04:39 PM
When authors cite Josephus they often quote the major work (e.g. "The Antiquities of the Jews"), then the book, then the chapter, then the verse (e.g. Antiquities 2:15:1). However, this is not the way BibleWorks references Josephus. The book is Antiquities then there are 20 chapters; each with various numbers of verses.

Is there an easy way (conversion table or something) somewhere to convert references like "Antiquities 2:15:1" to the BibleWorks schema?

I'm probably missing something obvious, but I've struggled with this many times, and thought I'd finally ask...

Thanks!

BigJayOneill
12-18-2008, 10:52 PM
If you are writing, you can cite the BibleWorks Josephus database. The following example is a footnote in the MLA format.

Ant 8:323-324, Josephus Database, BibleWorks for Windows. (7th ED. BibleWorks, LLC: 2006).

Eric
12-18-2008, 11:35 PM
Thanks, but I don't think I was clear. I'm not looking for how to cite in a paper but rather to find a Josephus citation in BibleWorks. If a paper cites a Josephus reference such as "Antiquities Book 2 Chapter 15 Verse 1" (or Antiq. 2:15:1), how can I locate that reference in BibleWorks?

If I put on the command line "Ant 15:1" this would not be the correct reference (nor would "Ant 2:15"). BibleWorks doesn't allow "Ant 2:15:1"

So, I can access Antiquities, but there are no books within Antiquities in BibleWorks - only chapters and verses. My hard copy of Josephus breaks down "Antiquities" into books, chapters, and verses; but BibleWorks does not break Antiquities into books. Does that make sense? I'm afraid I'm missing something obvious, but so far have not been able to spot it...:confused:

Dale A. Brueggemann
12-19-2008, 02:49 AM
The problem is that BW uses public domain texts, which don't follow the standard scholarly way of citing Josephus. I've been frustrated by it before too, not just for finding the citation but for citing it correctly with the standard scholarly way of citing it. I would like a solution to that too.

MGVH
12-19-2008, 01:47 PM
The issue here is that BW is using the Niese sytem based on the Greek which divided Antiquities into books and sections.
The other system is that used by Whiston in his English translation, a translation that became something of a standard.
In most academic work, the Niese system is the one to use. (The Loeb edition uses this notation but includes the Whiston system in parentheses.) As the SBL Handbook notes, it is a problem:
Within a work a scholar could conceivably cite Josephus’s Antiquities as Ant. X,xiii.1 258; Antiq. X,13,1; Ant. X.13.1 258; Antiq. X.xiii, 1; Ant. X.13.1; Antiq. 10.13.1 258; Ant. 10.258; Ant. X.xiii.1; Antiq. 10.13, 1 258; and so on.
If publishing, you need to consult the publisher's guidelines, but in general, the preferred would be: Ant. 10.258.

Now, to get to the original question of finding Whiston refs to the Antiq. in BW.


Do a word search if you know the text.
The CCEL edition of Josephus' Antiq (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/works/files/works.html) uses the same Whiston English as BW, so if you know the text in BW, you could search the English at CCEL and get the Whiston.
BEST: Use Perseus (though there's a drawback: Perseus can be slooooowww). With Josephus, Antiq, look at the left margin. It has navigation to use Whiston sections (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text.jsp?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook% 3D1%3Awhiston+chapter%3Dpr.%3Awhiston+section%3D1) OR book:sections (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text.jsp?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0146&default.scheme=book:section&default.type=section). If you know the Whiston chapter:section, the Perseus display does include the Niese numbering (in chunks of 5) in brackets in the text. If you are in BW and have the book:section number, you can enter that in the box, then when the text shows up, note approximately where it shows up on the location in document bar. Switch to Whiston section, then click on the approximate location in the Whiston chapter bar. Yes, it's a goofy way of finding it... If someone finds a better way, let us know.

Mark Cannon
12-19-2008, 04:05 PM
Some time ago I found that Steve Mason's PACE site has a handy converter. To find it you can go to the Texts and Commentary section of the Project on Ancient Cultural Engagement (PACE) at:

http://pace.mcmaster.ca/York/york/texts.htm

1. Click on the Josephus document you want to check (The Judean Antiquities)
2. Then in the upper right hand corner set the boxes to Whiston Section and enter the Whiston chapter division reference (Book 2 - Chapter 15 - Whiston Section - 1)
3. click go
4. The reference will display according to Niese numbering system (315-317)
5. With JOS, JOM or JOE set as your search version, on the Command Line in BibleWorks type "ant 2:315" and then <Enter> to navigate to that location.

Eric
12-19-2008, 04:49 PM
THANKS! all. This just made my day! I should have asked a long time ago. :D

MGVH
12-19-2008, 09:36 PM
Thanks, Mark, for finding that site. I had vaguely remembered that there was such a site, and I spent about 10 minutes googling around trying to find it. I have it bookmarked now!
And note at that Pace site, if you enter in the Niese reference, you can see the Whiston reference on the right side just below the title of the work.

Mark Cannon
12-19-2008, 10:33 PM
Hi Mark, the funny thing is that we've had this conversation before, including Dale chiming in as well.

I vaguely remembered it as well, so I searched my old posts and found the following:
http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1609

Looks like a good item to bookmark in Ermie!

MGVH
12-19-2008, 11:48 PM
oh, fer cryin' out loud...
I knew I had some vague memory. If it wasn't for my computer and Google I would forget everything. Or maybe because of my computer and Google I'm not bothering to remember anything anymore!