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Yaku Lee
04-30-2008, 12:21 AM
Using Korean edition of MS Word of MS Office Professional Edition 2003, I installed “Other Language Support” (Control Panel, Country & Language Option, Language tab) on MS Windoes XP. I have Bwhebb.ttf installed. Choosing “Hebrew Input Device” on MS Word and clicking “Right to Left” icon, it looks OK except that the keyboard doesn’t behave properly. Eg., for “a” you don’t get a but X, and for “~” not ~ but “~,” etc. With the shift key depressed, it behaves partially OK. Moreover I cannot designate Bwhebb on the font box. How can I fix it so that I can create “normal” OT-Hebrew documents? :confused:

David Kummerow
04-30-2008, 12:35 AM
BW fonts are not unicode fonts so are unsuitable for what you are trying to do, ie using the language support etc. of the OS and Office.

Install the SIL Hebrew keyboard driver and for fonts use either SBL Hebrew or Ezra SIL.

Regards,
David Kummerow.

Yaku Lee
05-22-2008, 12:08 AM
It surely sounds very odd that I should raise a question and I should answer the same sometime later, but that is what really happened. And I am posting this answer hoping to help some other agonizing souls like myself.
I explored every possibility I could get my hands on with no avail, and I accidentally looked at the gray area on the BW User Forums and found “BibleWorks Customer Support FAQs.” Perhaps there is my answer?
Voila! Yes. Go to “Fonts and Keyboard Issues” in the section “Troubleshooting,” and find the article “How Can I Key Hebrew Text into BibleWorks or a Word Processor?” by Charlie, a BibleWorks Staff. Follow the instruction and your headache is gone.
However there seems to be some minor glitches to be resolved. (1) Normal editing mark for space is a shaded dot in the middle, but it appears as a square here. Hide the editing mark, and the squares disappear. (2) Final Kafs have some problems. The little Sheva and Kamets do not hang up there as the Chireck does, and they fall down to the bottom. (3) Cholem does not get attached to a consonant but takes a character space of its own. (4) For no apparent reason the keyboard suddenly behaves erratically, and just as suddenly it goes back to normal. I couldn’t figure out why.
I submitted these problems to the BW customer service division and they promised to attend to them in the near future. I hope they will take care of them very soon.
Yaku Lee

David Kummerow
05-22-2008, 01:35 AM
Most of the issues you list above sound to me like issues with the particular font you are using. For example, the holem spacing issue I know happens with Times New Roman but that has now been repaired with the version shipped with Vista I've heard. Using BL Hebrew or Ezra SIL there are no such issues.

Regards,
David.

MGVH
05-22-2008, 10:41 PM
The Unicode Hebrew KEYBOARDS are not created equal. It is a known problem when typing Greek in the editor window.
The one keyboard system that does seem to work is the one from Tavultesoft, Keyman. I can't speak for sure about Hebrew, but you can try the program for free before buying for $19. I have more info here (http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2008/04/more-on-unicode-greekhebrew-and-keyman.html).

David Kummerow
05-23-2008, 04:08 AM
Isn't Keyman for non-unicode fonts? In terms of Greek, I've modified the Tyndale keyboard driver and for Hebrew I've slightly modified the SBL one. For transliteration, I've done one from scratch.

Regards,
David.

Yaku Lee
05-23-2008, 05:32 AM
I have had no problem at all with Greek either in BW editor or in MS Word, mostly in MS Word. With the Bwgrkl.ttf and Bwgrkn.ttf fonts (from BW) installed just like any other fonts on my Windows XP, by simply selecting one of the fonts on the font box (either with Korean or English (US) keyboard) I could enter any Greek word with accents, of course, just as easily as any English word. I could easily switch back and forth between Greek and English by selecting the appropriate font on the font box. And I have never bothered about Unicode system until I came to Hebrew.
Kindly,
Yaku Lee

David Kummerow
05-23-2008, 08:05 AM
Bwgrkl is a non-unicode font so Word will not recognise it as Greek language input so spell-checking will thing it is English (or whatever your default language). However, because Greek is a left-to-write language, it can be input as if it were "English". Hebrew you have more difficulties with unless you go with unicode. One of the things I used to hate when using non-unicode Hebrew fonts was the wrong word wrapping down when adjust margins or changing a line. I can post my keyboard drivers if anyone would like to test, both for 32 bit and 64 bit systems.

Regards,
David.

MGVH
05-24-2008, 09:08 AM
Hello, David,
I had blogged HERE (http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2008/04/unicode-greek-office2007-update-logos.html) and HERE (http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2008/04/more-on-unicode-greekhebrew-and-keyman.html) regarding Greek Unicode keyboard drivers. As you comment, I did find that the Tyndale ones worked well, but I hate having to type accents/breathing before typing the vowel. The Logos one is much nicer in this respect, but it has all sorts of issues in Word2007.

I would be interested in hearing/seeing what you did to modify the Tyndale keyboards for Greek and SBL for Hebrew.

(BTW, Keyman works great for Unicode Greek/Hebrew, but as I mentioned, it costs $19 for just two additional keyboards.)

Thanks.
mark

David Kummerow
05-24-2008, 07:15 PM
(BTW, Keyman works great for Unicode Greek/Hebrew, but as I mentioned, it costs $19 for just two additional keyboards.)

Thanks for the info, that's news to me.

Microsoft's MSKLC isn't too difficult to use to make adjustments to a keyboard driver. There's only one or two things I added to SIL's Hebrew keyboard driver. Now that I think about it, I may not have made any alterations to Tydale's Greek keyboard driver, just compiled it for use with 32 bit and 64 bit systems. It wouldn't be too hard to change to allow for accents/breathing after their letter.

Tomorrow I provide some links.

Regards,
David.

MGVH
05-24-2008, 09:05 PM
I'll look forward to your links, David.
I have used the Microsoft's MSKLC to alter the Logos Greek keyboard.
Using Bible Windows and Sgreek fonts long ago, I got use to typing chi on the X and xi on the C. (Always have to think twice in BW on the command line...)

David Kummerow
05-25-2008, 02:43 AM
Hebrew keyboard driver here (http://home.exetel.com.au/galapo/FontsAndKeyboards/BH-SIL.rar).

Greek keyboard driver here (http://home.exetel.com.au/galapo/FontsAndKeyboards/Greek.rar).

Transliteration keyboard driver here (http://home.exetel.com.au/galapo/FontsAndKeyboards/translit.rar).

Source is included with each download. The transliteration keyboard driver is most probably best used with my modified version of Minion Pro. That is, I've added charachters to Adobe's Minion Pro font which ships with Acrobat Reader 8 with all the necessary characters for transliterating Hebrew, Aramaic, Ugaritic, Akkadian, Egyptian, and Coptic (the only really useful element it now lacks is full IPA support):

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8126/minonll8.png

Here is the link to the updater (http://home.exetel.com.au/galapo/FontsAndKeyboards/Update_MinionPro.rar). I am unable to supply the modified fonts themselves as this would be a breach of Minion Pro's copyright agreement. However, the copyright agreement does allow Minion Pro being modified for personal use (which is why I chose an Adobe font instead of a Microsoft font or something which generally do not allow modifications even for personal use) and my updater will add the extra characters to the Minion Pro fonts you have on your system (see the readme for more details).

Anyway, hopefully something is useful!

Regards,
David.

Yaku Lee
05-26-2008, 05:59 AM
Obviously some discussion on Hebrew and Greek Unicode fonts and keyboards has been going on over my head recently, and I had no idea why we should be concerned about Unicode system, until now. I used to make Greek vocabulary lists and sort them, and the lists were arranged in English alphabetical order, not in Greek order. It was a bit inconvenient but I could live with it, since I was not involved in any publication project. Now comes this Hebrew material. After some initial difficulties in keying in Hebrew words on MS Word, I finally find a way to key them in normally, not a perfect one but an acceptable one for my purpose. I now sort the Hebrew vocabulary list, and it comes out perfect, not in English but in Hebrew alphabetic order. Great! Now I’m beginning to see why we have to insist on Unicode system.

But what is Unicode? When I try to find some info on it, I come upon all those technicalities which are beyond me. Except for the basic idea of having a uniform coding system for all the characters and signs of the world, I am all confused. Would some one kindly recommend some simple material on Unicode which a novice like me can read and understand?

Kindly,
Yaku Lee

MGVH
05-26-2008, 11:27 PM
Thanks, David.
As far as I can tell, you didn't do anything to alter the Tyndale Greek keyboard. I don't know that I will be able to figure out how to get it to do the breathing/accent before the vowel with all the permutations.

BTW, anyone trying to use David's keyboards will need a utility to unzip RAR files. I recommend TUGZip (http://www.tugzip.com/) or 7-Zip (http://www.download.com/7-Zip/3000-2250_4-10045185.html?tag=lst-0-5&cdlPid=10780224). Both are free and will at least unzip RARs.

David Kummerow
05-27-2008, 12:23 AM
Thanks, David.
I don't know that I will be able to figure out how to get it to do the breathing/accent before the vowel with all the permutations.


Yes, that's the tricky and time-consuming part. Took me a while to get how to set this up properly with my transliteration driver. I chose to follow Microsoft's practice with their International keyboard (which I tend to use for entering German and French) and have the entering of diacritics before the letter. I assume this is why the Tyndale driver also works the the same way.

Regards,
David.