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Andrew Fincke
10-08-2007, 04:15 PM
At 2 Samuel 7:12 they've got נותר (NOTAR) registered as a hifil.
Andrew Fincke

SkipB
10-09-2007, 02:33 AM
Andrew, many older translations take this as a niphal perfect. But if you check Gesenius' grammar section 109 on the jussive, this is taken as a hiphil jussive used as a cohortative 1 pl. Check HALOT and Holladay, they list this occurance in their hiphil section as well.
Several translations therefore take it not as "none shall be left" but "we shall leave (or let us leave) none."
You just need to decide which makes more sense, the major action being done by "we," or the last "even one" being the subject of the passive form if you take it as niphal. Both are possible ways to read it but, the consistency of the cohortative and jussives goes well with ahithohpehl's advice

Andrew Fincke
10-09-2007, 01:25 PM
Gee, Rollin,
And I thought I knew Hebrew! Time to go back to the grammar.
Andy

Andrew Fincke
10-09-2007, 01:27 PM
PS.
Even-Shoshan's concordance reads it like me.
A.F.

SkipB
10-10-2007, 01:04 PM
It really is a case where the morphology is ambiguous. Because that form seems so natural to read as you did, one may not even check a lexicon for an alternative. But this kind of exploration can really stretch our understanding of the language and make us think about syntax more. And that is the great thing about Bibleworks. It invites you to spend 20 minutes exploring. With print resources, it may take you a whole evening to check something like this out, and you may not have all the resources available where you are working when you find the problem. Enjoy the adventure.

Mark Eddy
10-11-2007, 11:21 PM
No matter how you want to read NOTAR in 2 Sam. 17:12, WTM gets it wrong. If it is hiphil, it is not third person. The prefix nun would make it first person plural. If it is third person, then it has to be niphal. So it appears that WTM has to make a correction of one sort or the other, maybe list both possibilities (niphal 3rd person and/or hiphil 1st person).
Mark Eddy

Andrew Fincke
10-12-2007, 11:49 AM
Right, Mark!
I sent Kirk Lowery an e-mail (klowery@wts.edu), although I didn't tell him about the third person. I told him to keep an eye on the BW forum, however.
Andrew Fincke

Dale A. Brueggemann
10-12-2007, 11:54 AM
Of course, it's neither 2Sam 7:12 nor 1Sam 17:12, but rather 2Sam 17:12.