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MortenJensen
09-14-2007, 04:10 AM
Hi all
I have a suggestion to the BW-staff for future improvement of BW: I think a better, more user-friendly and more modern handling of text groups is needed.
To me it seems odd that you have to define your text groups and tabs by your self - risking to miss some connected material.
It would be much more logic that BW came with an predefined division like:
OT-texts
NT-texts
OT Pseudepigrapha
OT apocrypha
NT apocrypha
Philon
Josephus
Qumran
etc...

My point is: right now you have to first point out a search version, then you have to find out whether some Greek, Hebrew or English text follows that search version, and then you have to define a tab (which cannot be labelled) and to save it.

Why not make it much more userfriendly and with clear text and labes explictly stating which text goes with which and in the userinterface then give an option on what to have displayed together, which version to be the searchable and so on.

Am I clear enough here?

Right now my bet is that many BW user would not even know which books they have on the HD simply because BW does not in a user friendly manner tell you so.

So, just my 2 cents...

Morten

Ben Spackman
09-14-2007, 11:49 AM
I partly agree that the setup could be clearer, but on the other hand, I don't use my tabs the way you describe, in which each tab is assigned a particular kind of material (if I've understood correctly).

I use one tab for my main research, a second for my main reading, and all the rest end up being offshoot searches. For example, I'm reading along, and I want to run a search on some Hebrew phrase that pops up. instead of doing it in my reading window and losing my place, I clone it to another tab and do my messing about in there. When finished, I clear that tab and go back to my reading pane.

MGVH
09-14-2007, 01:37 PM
Just a little hint that helps a bit...
With the cursor clicked somewhere in the middle browse window, hit the letter "V" (for version) on your keyboard. This will open up a menu with the texts sorted by language: Greek, Hebrew, English, Latin, etc.

It helps a bit, but it would still be better to have texts groups as you noted by topic/subject.

jfidel
09-16-2007, 10:09 PM
Hi Morten,

I agree with your suggestion. The video below shows how I set up several language or resource specific groups and how I use them in a cross version search. This may be a work around until BW gets the features you are recommending. I would like these to be provided by BW and the link #'s to be able to be named. Also, it needs to be easier to set these up without missing versions. As the resources continue to grow, library management becomes more important.

http://screencast.com/t/5Va9Uwe751K

Hopefully the video is clear and helpful.

John Fidel

MGVH
09-16-2007, 11:22 PM
I had not thought of using the Display Versions tool in that way, ... and then to work with the cross-language search tool. I'm busy pulling together displays of the Targums and other sets. Thanks!

jfidel
09-16-2007, 11:41 PM
Hi Mark,

I am glad the suggestion was helpful. It should be easier to set up.. perhaps the next version.

John Fidel

Mark Eddy
09-17-2007, 12:37 AM
Ever since 7.0 came out I have been using tabs as Morten suggests. The problem with making such tabs pre-set is that not all users load all the Bible versions that come with BW. Not all users purchase the add-on versions, and some people make more use of user-database versions. So, if you designate tab 1 as Old Testament (which I do), each user may have a different set of versions in it. I have WTT, BGT, VUL, and various English versions. Others might want the Targums or non-English modern translations. You can use the "Edit Search/Display Favorites" under Options, right now to decide which versions you want together. If you want BW to ship with somebody's personal favorites, that would be easy to do. It takes one line in the BW700.ini file. But whose favorites would you choose?
When you talk about versions that go together, that can mean different things too. For example I have my tab 3 for all versions in all languages that contain the apocrypha. (Tab 2 is for my favorite versions for New Testament study). But most users wouldn't care to have the Slovak versions in the favorites, just because it contains the apocrypha.
I also have set up tabs for the Apostolic Fathers, Josephus, Philo, classical Greek (almost all from user-databases), and Pseudepigrapha (which I would like to be able to coordinate with the Dead Sea Scrolls, since there is some overlap). If someone is interested, I could post my tabs, but they are personal preferences, not necessarily a definitive grouping.
Someone else might want all versions that are translated from the Vulgate instead of from the Greek and Hebrew. Some translations of the OT are based on the LXX instead of on the Hebrew. Would having a separate tab for them be what you mean by combining versions that "follow" your search version? If so, parts of the Vulgate are translated from Hebrew and parts from LXX. So do you include the translations of the Vulgate among the translations of the LXX? Users might differ in their answer to these questions. So, you just edit your favorites.
The one advantage of NOT having a name on the tabs is that is saves screen space. I have 8 active tabs. I can see only 7 on my screen, even though each is just a number. I would probably see only 2 or 3 tabs on my screen, if the title of each tab were to be displayed. If I can remember a ten-digit 800 phone number, I should be able to remember my 8 tabs (which I do).
Just some food for thought.
Mark Eddy

jfidel
09-17-2007, 12:52 AM
First of all you make some good points. A few thoughts:

1. Why not make it easier to find resources in the version listing? I would like to see all Greek NT texts and not have to filter through all Greek Texts. The Peshitta texts are all over the place. Why not make it easier to put sets together?

2. Why not have a few sets that users can adapt or copy as a starting point for their own sets?

3. I think BW can make things easier and still maintain the ability for each user to adapt the software for their purpose. This way new users can have access to some of the more advanced features and advanced users such as yourself can tweak things how best suites you.

4. How many BW users really know how to tweak the ini file and want to? Not me.

John Fidel

MortenJensen
09-17-2007, 05:46 AM
John, thanks for the very helpful screen cast - such a cross-version search surely enhances the value of the many added user databases.

Just as a response to some of the arguments here against a simplification of the interface, I would say that I surely treasure BWs highly customizable design strategy as well. However, in this case I think it comes out too 'nerdy' and unhandy. You need a really good overview over the resources available to be sure on not accidentally leaving something out in your collections.

I am sure that the BW staff can come up with a more user-friendly, less nerdy and more fancy solution that would demand a less steep learning curve without compromising the flexibility.

All the best
Morten

MortenJensen
09-19-2007, 09:49 AM
Hi again
John (and others), what is the difference between using the tabs to call up predefined collections and search preferences and then the one you show in the video, where collections are stored under Options/Versions?

I have predefined collections at my tabs marked by two ** - but nothing is written under Options/Versions?

Also, what does it actually do when I freeze the tabs (* -> **)? I started doing so because I experienced that my tab-collections got lost from time to time. Now I freeze them and save the collection in a different name.

Thanks
Morten

jfidel
09-19-2007, 05:44 PM
Hi Morten,

I am not certain I understand your questions, but will try and answer what I think you are asking.

When you run a cross version search and select the hits for Philo, you will get the Greek texts, but not the English if you just click on the hit, in the window that is open. If you want to have the related English text and have the Philo hits separate from Josephus hits, then using tabs with predefined sets is the best way I have found to make this work.

There may be other/better way, but I have not yet discovered them. Having predefined sets is good. Applying them to separate tabs makes separating a cross version search easy to manage, at least for me.

Hopefully this helps,

John Fidel

Mark Eddy
09-20-2007, 12:09 AM
Hi again
John (and others), what is the difference between using the tabs to call up predefined collections and search preferences and then the one you show in the video, where collections are stored under Options/Versions?

I have predefined collections at my tabs marked by two ** - but nothing is written under Options/Versions?

Thanks
Morten
I always save my Search & Display Favorites by name under "Options" "Versions." That way, if a tab gets erased (which can happen if BW has a major change in an web update), you just click on the button to the left of the command line, chose your pre-defined favorite from the drop-down list, and all the versions in it display in the browse window for the tab you are using. And if you should happen to do a cross-version search and click on a version that isn't in your current tab (thus wiping out the versions in that tab), all you have to do is click the button next to the command line again, and choose your favorite over. Since I have set up favorites for all the groups that have been discussed (I think), if you are interested I could post the appropriate line from my BW700.ini file, and you could incorporate it either by choosing those versions through "Options" "Versions" within BW or by editing the .ini file in WordPad and then re-opening BW. Let me know if that might help.
Mark Eddy

MortenJensen
09-20-2007, 03:39 AM
Hi Mark
Thanks for your explanation, I would surely like to take a look at your ini-file! So, thanks for sharing.
Morten

Mark Eddy
09-21-2007, 12:21 AM
Here are the four lines from my BW700.ini file that determine the favorites. Since they include many user databases, you may not be able to set up all these "as is". You can either use them as a guide for which versions you might like in your "favorites" or you could use "My Computer" to open your BW700.ini file with WordPad and paste these lines in place of the corresponding lines in your .ini file. If you want to try that, for safety's sake, copy your current BW700.ini to another folder (such as the userdb folder) before you edit the main BW700.ini file. That way if your copy of BW7 doesn't like something in these 4 lines, you can just delete the edited BW700.ini file and copy your original BW700.ini back into the root BW7 directory, and BW will go back to the way you have it now.
If you paste this material into WordPad, it will come out with only 4 lines:
The first line is the name for the favorites.
The next line contains the version abbreviations that belong in each favorite, with a slash (|) to note the beginning of a new favorite. These are in the same order as the "FavoritesNames".
The third line lists the favorites that I have set up for the parallel versions window. These do not affect the browse window, but can be used to open a separate "parallel" window by typing "p" on the command line, followed by a space, followed by the name of the parallel set that you want to open.
The fourth line is actually a few lines down in the BW700.ini file, and it contains the version abbreviations for the parallel versions favorites, again with slashes between the 4 favorites that I have set up.
I hope this is helpful.
Mark Eddy
FavoritesNames=Apocrypha|Bible Class|SEuropean|Pseudepigrapha|Total Hebrew|Hebrew|Creeds|NEuropean|EEuropean|Other|Gre ek|Total Greek|Philo|Classical|Latin|Fathers|Josephus|Islam |NT|OT|English|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||
Favorites=BGT BTP LXT WTT RSV NRS VUL LUT EIN LXE IEP BGT FBJ DRA TOB BFC NAB NJB CRO SSV APB BCI CAB HRD KJA LXTV WYC|BGT WTT NKJ BGT ESV GWN L45|BGT WTT VUL CRL LSG RVA SRV LBA DRB NEG LND NRV IEP BRP STE BGT ARA ARC FBJ DRA VUO R60 TOB BFC ACF R95 BCI CAB NVI SBP VUC|POT LXT VUL QST ENL GEP HON JAM OTP POT|WTT WTT QST TAR CGT FTT HNT NFT NMT PJT|BGT WTT NKJ BYZ BGT TAR MRD PEH PES|CRE CDG CDL CRE CRG|BGT WTT NRS LUT ELB SVV EIN LEI LUV ELO LUO SCH BYZ BGT NBK NBG N30 N38 NBN AFR D31 HRD L45 LUU MNT S17 SCL SFB W78 W95 WIE|BGT RST BTP WTT NKJ FIN HUN UKR ALB BYZ BGT BKR CEP KMS NKB BUL B40 BGP CNS CRO SNC SSV|BGT VIE WTT BIS ITB BYZ BGT TAR AVX BHT CU5X CUSX HNT KOR PEH PES TUR BONT MGK SANT SWA|BGT LXT SCR BYZ STE WHO TIS BGT GOC LXTV MAT MET MGK VST|HDT SCR BYZ STE WHO TIS BGT AIG APF APRH ARST CALM CRG DMS EPTS GEP GOC HDT HHG HHJ JOS LXTV MAT MET MGK PAUS PHI PSA PTO VST XEN GORG|PHI JOL PHE PHI PHL|HDT APRH ARST CALM CSRE DMS EPTS HDE HDT HHD HHE HHG HHJ PAUS PSA PTO XEN GORG|SUETE APL CDL CSRE HHD JCSR JOL SUET SUETE TAC THE VUC HORA HORA2 HORE|APF AFE ANF APE APF APL|JOS JOE JOL JOS|QUR BUK MUS QUR|BGT WTT NIV NKJ NRS LSG NAU BYZ BGT PEH ESV GWN L45 VUC|WTT WTT NIV NKJ NRS LSG NAU BGT ASM ESV GGM GWN L45 LXTV VUC|BGT KJV WTT ASV NIV NIB NAS RSV NKJ NRS NAU LXE WEB RWB DBY BBE YLT BYZ BGT DRA NAB NLT NJB ABC APB ASM BSP CEV CJB CSB EMT ERV ESV ETH FCT GGM GNV GWN JPS JTE KJ6 KJA KJG LEW MGI MRD NET NLO NOR NWT OKE PNT TNK TNT WES WYC COV|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PFavoritesNames=Apocrypha|OT Parallel|NT Parallel|Working|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||
ParallelFavorites=BGT VUL RSV NRS KJA DRA NAB NJB|WTT BGT NAU|BGT BYZ NAU|BGT DRA SSV VUL LUT||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||

MGVH
09-21-2007, 01:18 AM
Between updates and user databases, I'm trying to figure out exactly what Targums (Targumim) I have. This is the best of what I can figure I have, and if anyone can confirm or correct or give other texts, it would be appreciated.
(Note that I use a **T/M to include both the text and morph version.)

Palestinian Pentateuch texts
Neofiti I: NFT/M and marginal notes in NMT/M
Fragmentary: FTT/M
Cairo Geniza: CGT/MPalestinian Prophets
Jerusalem: JTE (ie, English only)Babylonian Pentateuch texts
Onkelos: TAR/M and OKE (English)
Pseudo-Jon: PJT/M and PJE (English)Babylonian Prophets
Jonathon: TAR/MWritings:
TAR/M collects all the various Writings Tgm
PTE (English for Psalms)I also have a TNE (supposedly of Neofiti) and a TPJ (supposedly of Ps-Jon), but they appear corrupt.
I also have a TAE that appears to be identical to PTE (English for Psalms).

So, no English for the Palestinian Pentateuch texts and no Aramaic for the Jerusalem Prophets text.
In the Babylonian tradition, TAR/M collects most manuscripts, but no English translations for the Prophets or Writings except for Psalms.
Corrections?
Thanks.

Mark Eddy
09-21-2007, 10:47 PM
"I also have a TNE (supposedly of Neofiti) and a TPJ (supposedly of Ps-Jon), but they appear corrupt."
If I remember correctly these were user databases developed for BW6. Once BW7 came out with NFT and PJT these became obsolete. I think that they can safely be deleted. At least that's what I did.
Mark Eddy