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Eric
04-26-2007, 05:16 PM
I'm not certain this is possible but thought I'd ask anyway...:confused:

I am looking for all Hebrew lemmas that have been translated "counsel" in various versions. When I search "counsel" in KJV I get 118 hits. I could go through the list one by one and note the different Hebrew words that are translated counsel, but I would like to find a way to automate this into one list of Hebrew words.

I've experimented a bit with the Word List Manager but to no avail.

It seems this should be possible because somewhere in the database there is a link from KJV to the Hebrew lemma since when one mouses over the English word, the lemma and definition show up by way of pop up.

Does anyone know if this is possible?

Thanks!

Steve Watkins
04-26-2007, 06:16 PM
This is a case for the Graphical Search Engine.

Open it up (Search menu, Graphical Search Engine - or use the tool button to the right of the command line)

Once it's open, go to File, select Open, and a list of pre-created GSE examples will appear. Select, "multiver.qf" and open it up.

It shows how to use the GSE to create a search which finds all verses that translate ἀγαπ* from the GNT to lov* in the KJV. Fiddle around with it, and you should be able to make it do what you need.

Eric
04-26-2007, 06:57 PM
Thanks Steve. The GSE example was helpful, but one has to have both the Hebrew lemma and the English equivalent that one is looking for to make this useful.

I was wanting to find all the Hebrew words that have been translated "counsel" in the KJV.

By using the GSE and the example I was able to save some time. After going through the list of 118 items one at a time I began to see that there were 4 words that were used. However, I could not be certain that was all the Hebrew words used until I went through the entire list one at a time.

With your post, I opened up the GSE and searched in the WTM for the 4 words that I knew, and combined that with the KJV searching "counsel." I used an AND box with WTT and got a list of 111 verses. That told me that there were 7 more verses among the 118 that did not use those 4 Hebrew words.

I then opened up the Verse List Manager and imported my 111 verses. In the secondary list I imported the 118 verses from the KJV search, remap those KJV verses to WTT and asked the VLM to select the verses not common to both. Viola! The 7 verses that did not use the 4 know Hebrew words! Now I only had to look at 7 verses instead of one hundred!

While the specific search that I wanted may not be available, I am amazed at how one can get to what one needs if you spend a little with this amazing program!!!

Thanks for your suggest Steve!

MGVH
04-26-2007, 11:30 PM
I have never quite done a search like this, but here are some other options.

Open up the Greek/Hebrew lexicons window, choose a lexicon, then use Edit > Search, then use English as your search language. You'll have to weed through some non-apt results, but it will certainly cast a wide net. You would, of course, have to do a search in both a Greek and a Hebrew lexicon.
Use Nave's Topical Bible (under Resources > Misc) and find the entry for "Counsel" and check the verses listed. Doesn't look to be very thorough, though.
I don't know if it is possible, but this would be an ideal instance to search through Strong's for "counsel." (Does anyone know if such a search can be done?) What you can do is use one of the Strong's tagged versions (KJV, NAU, NAS), and search using .counsel@*
That returns 143 hits in 137 verses, but it might be easier to scan through the results with the Strong's codes revealed to pick out the various words.

Steve Watkins
04-27-2007, 12:49 AM
Yeah, all good ideas. It's interesting that this topic hasn't come up before, because Eric's particular search isn't an oddity. A lot of people have probably wanted the same thing - a quick way to determine which Hebrew or Greek lemmas have been translated by the same English word in any particular version. I think Eric's solution, combining the GSE and VLM is the best way to streamline such a search. Perhaps we can put a request in for a tool dedicated to such a thing in a future version.