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tcblack
11-06-2006, 12:56 PM
Before I file a bug report I'd like to see if anyone else is having trouble typing unicode Greek accents in the editor?

When I type: λόγος I'm getting λο?γος

I can't guess where this started. I can still paste correctly and I can type of course just fine in bwgrkl, but I prefer to work in unicode. Any comments?

Michael Hanel
11-06-2006, 01:02 PM
What Unicode font is it using?

Trajan
11-06-2006, 03:10 PM
Before I file a bug report I'd like to see if anyone else is having trouble typing unicode Greek accents in the editor?

When I type: λόγος I'm getting λο?γος

I can't guess where this started. I can still paste correctly and I can type of course just fine in bwgrkl, but I prefer to work in unicode. Any comments?

I have never been able to use the Unicode Greek. None of the accents work, with Arial MS, Gentium or any other font. Isn't there a long-standing thread on this? Has anyone ever been able to get it to work?

MGVH
11-06-2006, 06:52 PM
Here's the previous thread:
http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8803#post8803

no solutions reported

Michael Hanel
11-06-2006, 07:19 PM
Go to this website: http://www.biblicalgreek.org/links/fonts/keyboard.html

Following the first half of their instructions, I can get BW Editor to work successfully in Unicode Greek.

Windows XP-

In the Windows XP standard Start menu, click Start, and then click Control Panel.

In the Windows XP classic Start menu, click Start, click Settings, and then click Control Panel.

Double-click Regional and Language Options.
Click the Languages tab, and then click Details under "Text Services and Input Languages".

Click Add under "Installed Services", and then click Greek Polytonic to add and the keyboard layout for the language.
To configure the settings for the Language bar, click Language Bar under "Preferences".Experiment with those exact instructions.

Note: In the Language Control Panel I also went to Keyboard Settings and made Left-alt-shift toggle between keyboards. Now in BW I hit Left-alt-shift and it goes back and forth from Greek Unicode to English.

Trajan
11-06-2006, 10:11 PM
Does not work.

I can type in unicode Greek in any number of other programs, including MS Word. I already have the language settings set up for switching between languages and use the Logos Hebrew and Greek keyboards for that.

Logos' Unicode support is far superior to BW's (IMO).

MGVH
11-06-2006, 10:18 PM
Very interesting that you got it to work, Mike... and now it becomes clearer why the BW folks were thinking that it works and were unable to replicate the difficulties many of us were having.

Your success made me suspect that perhaps it was the keyboard setup that I am using that is the problem. I have been using the Logos keyboard (perhaps the programs don't like playing with each other!), because it offers a much easier (IMO) way to enter accents and breathing marks. They are entered after you type the vowel, and you can type both an accent and a breathing mark (or vice versa) sequentially to got both placed over the vowel. You don't have to remember what shift-key stroke is what combined accent. It also automatically knows to convert final sigmas.

I installed the Logos keyboard and I tried using the built in Greek Polytonic keyboard which you apparently are using, and idou! the accenting works.

I don't know how high on the list of things to check this issue goes for the BW support. I hate to switch to a different keyboard. For now, I've been doing my typing in WordPad and then copy/paste into the BW editor.

Michael Hanel
11-06-2006, 10:38 PM
I don't use Logos for any Unicode stuff, so I'm not in a good position to explain how that program is or isn't working. I'm also not an expert on how Windows is or isn't using Unicode keyboard controls, all I know is when I follow the instructions in my post above it works. As the blind man from John says, "All I know is that now I can see." And it works really well at that (in my opinion).

Even right now in Firefox, I hit alt-shift and boom ι καν τυπε ιν Γρεεκ πολυτονιψ Alt and shift and I'm out of it.
You want accents?
ά ᾱ ὰ ᾳ ᾰ ἇ ἆ etc. they all seem to work both in here and in the Editor.

From a programming perspective, I don't know how you isolate what the "problem" is. When Windows uses the "Greek Polytonic" keyboard, things seem to work in BW. When it isn't, there seems to be that problem.

Michael Hanel
11-06-2006, 11:46 PM
I installed the Logos keyboard and I tried using the built in Greek Polytonic keyboard which you apparently are using, and idou! the accenting works.


So what did you do differently to make it go from not working to working? What is left that is not working?

MGVH
11-07-2006, 09:43 AM
>>>>> I UN-installed the Logos keyboard and I tried using the built in Greek Polytonic keyboard which you apparently are using, and idou! the accenting works.

I meant to write "uninstalled" the Logos one and used the WinXP Greek Polytonic and things work fine just as you describe.

There are still issues with how these keyboards handling accenting: do you have to type the accent/breathing before or after the vowel? Can you use both accent and breathing or do you have to use a combination? Does the resulting character show up as a combined one (where it simply adds the components together) or a pre-composed one (where it substitutes the character with the proper accent/breathing)?

Mark

Michael Hanel
11-07-2006, 10:28 AM
do you have to type the accent/breathing before or after the vowel?

The answer seems to be yes.

Can you use both accent and breathing or do you have to use a combination?

You can use just a breathing mark, just an accent or both. (the keyboard map is at that website (http://www.biblicalgreek.org/links/fonts/keyboard.html))
vowel + ; = acute
vowel + [ = circumflex accent
vowel + ] = grave accent
vowel + ' = smooth breathing mark
vowel + " = rough breathing mark
vowel + = = smooth breathing mark and circumflex
vowel + + = rough breathing mark and circumflex
vowel + \ = smooth and grave
vowel + | = rough and grave
vowel +/ = smooth and acute
vowel + ? = rough and acute
vowel + { = iota subscript


Does the resulting character show up as a combined one (where it simply adds the components together) or a pre-composed one (where it substitutes the character with the proper accent/breathing)?

I'm not sure on the answer to this. The final character is "one character" so hitting backspace won't eliminate an accent, it will delete the whole character.

Final sigmas are not automatic. A normal sigma is "s" a final sigma is "w"

tcblack
11-07-2006, 04:37 PM
What Unicode font is it using?

I'm using BibliaLS but the situation is constant if I use Gentium, Arial unicode or others. Every other program works fine using the Built in windows xp unicode support.
Curiously a few weeks ago I was able to type accents etc in the window. I can't imagine what has changed since then. I'm a relentless tweaker (bad news I know) but every single program even NOTEPAD.EXE works just fine typing unicode including the accents - just not BW.

FWIW I've been using unicode for a few years now and i'm quite used to the ALT+left shift shortcut for switching keyboards. I have the Logos and the Polytonic keyboards installed for Greek and neither of them work in BW. I get question marks for every accent or breathing mark I try to type.

tcblack
11-07-2006, 04:50 PM
One more thing, even if I click using the on screen keyboard (OSK.exe) built into Ms windows xp I get the question marks.

briantipton
11-28-2006, 12:57 PM
Thanks for this info. I finally have the accents working in Unicode Greek in the editor.

However, I hate the keyboard layout. Every other program I use (Libronix, Nota Bene, etc.) has a better layout. I do not understand why I can use whatever keyboard I want in Office or my browser for instance, but not in the BW7 editor. When I switch to a differnet keyboard (even the Greek, non-polytonic supplied with WindowsXP) the status bar at the bottom of BW says "Unknown" for the keyboard.

Is there some way to get BW to recognize other keyboards?

I know the guys at BW do things for a reason. Perhaps it has to do with keeping final character forms consistent. I don't know.

Can someone "in the know" shed some light on this please?

hudsonhauck
04-04-2007, 09:38 PM
I put in my vote that the Logos keyboard layout is far superior. I am also typing in another window and copying/pasting into Bibleworks.

Any updates on this?

MBushell
04-20-2007, 05:24 PM
Sorry for all the trouble. It is nit clear to me if this problem is resolved now. If there is still a problem please file a bug report. Of course we can't really be responsible for those cases where a 3rd party like Logos does something to make the Windows language bar misbehave. But if the unmodified system Greek keyboard is not working properly with the BW Editor, they we'll fix it as quickly as possible.
Mike