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Noel Fitzpatrick
04-21-2006, 09:50 AM
Hello Everyone

I am a complete beginner to the forums (obviously!!)

Where does one begin? Most of the answers to questions seem to imply a basic understanding of the forums.

In particular, I am interested in the relative merits of Logos (Libronix DLS) and BW 7.

It seems to me that Logos is slow and error prone. However now it appears possible to jump to Logos from BW 7.

I look forward to getting to know you and the Forums.

Regards,

NF.

Ben Spackman
04-21-2006, 11:56 AM
See http://bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=678&highlight=logos
and http://bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467&highlight=logos for previous discussions on the topic (although one of them is about BW6 vs. Logos)

Noel Fitzpatrick
04-21-2006, 02:10 PM
Hi Ben

many thanks for your very helpful reply.

From reading it and the links you suggest I do see the relative merits of Logos (LDLS) and BW.

I use both. However I use mostly Logos, as I have ABD, TDNT, BDAG, etc.

However I was at a conference recently and there it semed that most serious scholars used BW (or Accordance for Mac users).

However does BW have an option similar to the 'About this resort' in Logos? Since in BW I can get a list of the resources available, but I do not know the relative merits of them.

Once again, many thanks for your reply to my first query in these forums.

NF.

Michael Hanel
04-21-2006, 02:31 PM
However does BW have an option similar to the 'About this resort' in Logos? Since in BW I can get a list of the resources available, but I do not know the relative merits of them.

Once again, many thanks for your reply to my first query in these forums.

NF.

There is no BW explanation of the resources per se. If you're a serious scholar, it's kind of assumed you know what value the resources are. Blunt opinion ahead: I find that Logos may over resource people. You can buy packages that do have thousands of books/resources, but to be honest I've found that it just makes a mess and most of them aren't worth their space on my harddrive. That's a pretty blanket statement though. BW base program offers a number of "free" resources that are covered as part of the cost of the program. What you're paying for is base copyright royalties, as well as enough money to make sure the programmers can afford to buy their bread and Dr. Pepper on which they live. Those resources are kind of entry-level, but more than adequate if you're not going to be a heavy hitting scholar/exegete.

However, the more you get involved in this stuff, the more you'd probably do digging to find the value of add-on resources.

HALOT, the Hebrew/Aramaic lexicon is the standard for academic work, there really is no other lexicon that has its place. BDB is a great lexicon, but it generally isn't held in the same hand as HALOT. BDAG would be the Greek equivalent. The point being if you do extended work, these guys are your bread and butter.

Other lexicons will add to and fill out any kind of word study you might do. I would always suggest going to a Seminary/university library and check out the real live books. Do you like the books? Are they helpful to you in your level of study? etc.

While some might contest the value of some of the freebies BW gives (for instance Matthew Henry's commentary might be nice, but it's not necessarily a "scholarly resource"), I can almost guarantee that you will not find any of the extra resources in BW which would not be worth the while. Basically it comes down to, what type of work do you use Bibleworks for. Not every pastor will have the time to do exegetical studies that some students/scholars might do for papers or exams, but for those that do all of BibleWorks' resources will prove helpful.

If you have more specific questions on a given resource, please ask, I will help point you to more info about it.

MGVH
04-21-2006, 04:54 PM
Beyond the original texts and translations, the reference works that are, imho, the most useful and respected are:
HALOT and BDAG (as Michael noted)
Louw-Nida Semantic Domain Lexicon
Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics (aka, Exegetical Syntax of the NT)
Metzger's Textual Commentary

Secondarily, I would also add the lexicons by Friberg and also Lust, the Conybeare/Stock LXX grammar, and the Tov-Polak Parallel-Aligned Hebrew Greek text.

All those are also available in Logos. One distinct advantage that BW has, however, is that the outstanding NET Bible comes with all the notes which is what really makes it worthwhile.

OTOH, the Bible dictionaries and encyclopedias in BW are fairly worthless. One thing I would like to see BW add is something like Harper's Bible Dictionary (std in most Logos packages) and the Harper's one volume Bible Commentary. They are basic but solid references.

Noel Fitzpatrick
04-22-2006, 11:56 AM
Hi Michael, Ben and Mark

I am very grateful for your replies.

I still feel about Logos as I do about an old pair of slippers, comfortable and familiar. In Logos I have most of the resources recommended, BDAG, ABD, TDNT, LN, Harpers's Commentary and I have a hard copy of Metzger, which I rarely use. However Logos is very slow and unstable.

However as BW is used by so many scholars I would like to use it more.

For one who wants to study the Greek Bible and the LXX what options would you recommend? Do you have any shortcuts or facilities you would like to suggest?

I use BGT as my search version; BGT, NAU, NAB, NRS and BNM (in that order) as my display versions. I use Times New Roman (12) as my English font and Bwgrkl (14) as my Greek font. My preferred Lexicon is LN and dictionary is Eastons.

What do you think of these choices? Would you like to suggest others?

Regards,

NF.

Dan Phillips
04-22-2006, 06:34 PM
Noel, if I understand you correctly, what I've done is copy a list of resources and translations I didn't immediately recognize, and Google them.

And BW gives an amazing array of solid, worthwhile resources. It's a treasure-trove.

Noel Fitzpatrick
04-22-2006, 10:44 PM
Hi Dan

many thanks for a brilliand and simple reply to my query.

Regards,

NF

ps Congratulatiuons on your web pages.

Dan Phillips
04-23-2006, 12:49 AM
Thank you, and thank you.

In fact, I'm using this page to do something like that now:
http://www.bibleworks.com/content/full.html

brainout
10-08-2008, 07:56 PM
I'm still on version 5 of BW. Totally addicted. I now make live videos for my Youtube "brainouty" subscribers who can't shell out for BW, showing them how easy it is to learn Hebrew and Greek with it, prove contested doctrines right or wrong, etc. I could NEVER do that so easily and clearly, with any other Bible software.

The videos are live: I just turn on wisdom-soft's Screen Recorder 3.0 Free, and talk into a separate microphone while manipulating the windows. Then I put the two pieces together in AVS4YOU Video Editor. Takes all of what -- 20 minutes, including the assembly.

Hence the question: should I also get Logos? No software package has everything. I plan to upgrade to version 7 of BW when I have time to learn its new features (oh please I hope you didn't change the interface); at that time I was thinking of also getting Logos in some version. But after going to the Logos website and watching its videos, I found the interface clunky, slow, and generally not helpful. Yet maybe it has resources of value which BibleWorks 7 lacks?

So that's my question. What package in Logos has valuable stuff which BibleWorks doesn't contain or won't contain? I'm not really interested in the typical commentaries or Church Fathers' stuff. So if that's all Logos has to add to the 'pot', then I won't purchase it. But if y'all think something valuable is in there, I'd really appreciate hearing about it.

Will be thinking of y'all when you're in Chicago, where I live.

Yours truly,

brainout (aka, Addicted to BW)

brainout
10-09-2008, 11:33 AM
Just picked up Logos Original Languages version because it contains syntax searching (along with lexical and morphological searching). Makes it easy to compare similar grammatical constructions (BW7 can search for specific phrases, but not their grammatical relationships).


How complex can you get with it? A lot of searches have string search equivalents, but if you can get complex that would be important. To be honest, I've never learned Advanced Search in BibleWorks because the arrow diagrams put me off, so I don't know if I could do something similar with Advanced Search.

brainout
10-10-2008, 12:33 PM
Thank you, bob. I'll check it out!

Dan Phillips
10-11-2008, 01:56 PM
FWIW, you can read my review (http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2007/11/logos-bible-software-review.html).

I use and respect Logos; I love BibleWorks.

brainout
10-11-2008, 02:31 PM
FWIW, you can read my review (http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2007/11/logos-bible-software-review.html).

I use and respect Logos; I love BibleWorks. Dicho, hecho, bookmarked. Thanks!

dribex
10-19-2008, 11:36 AM
As a professor of Biblical Studies and Greek, I believe that I must keep up to date on this question, for the sake of my students' questions. If you would like to read my thorough review of Logos/Libronix, check out the Fall, 2007 issue of The Master's Seminary Journal.
I have used BW since version 1 (or 2, I can't remember) and think that it is still the best for scholarly users. I just think that the GSE (graphic search) is too difficult to master. Both Logos and BW could learn for the ease of use in the same search engine of Accordance.
BW does not profess to be doing what Logos is attempting to do - have an enormous library accessible through their program. Logos has also increased their scholarly resources in recent years. General ease of use and a sensible interface, however, still belongs to BW.
If you can only have only one and you are doing language work, your first choice should be BW. If you mainly want to access extensive libraries instead of having them on your bookshelf, your choce should be Logos.
(I don't think the Logos Mac version is going to be worth their effort. I have tested it since Alpha 1 and now I am on Beta 2. It has a way to go, in my opinion.)

Some call me bi-polar because I use both BW and Logos. Actually, I am tri-polar, because I have a Mac and Accordance too!

Dr. William Varner
The Master's College & Seminary

brainout
10-19-2008, 02:11 PM
As a professor of Biblical Studies and Greek, I believe that I must keep up to date on this question, for the sake of my students' questions. If you would like to read my thorough review of Logos/Libronix, check out the Fall, 2007 issue of The Master's Seminary Journal.
I have used BW since version 1 (or 2, I can't remember) and think that it is still the best for scholarly users. I just think that the GSE (graphic search) is too difficult to master. Both Logos and BW could learn for the ease of use in the same search engine of Accordance.
BW does not profess to be doing what Logos is attempting to do - have an enormous library accessible through their program. Logos has also increased their scholarly resources in recent years. General ease of use and a sensible interface, however, still belongs to BW.
If you can only have only one and you are doing language work, your first choice should be BW. If you mainly want to access extensive libraries instead of having them on your bookshelf, your choce should be Logos.
(I don't think the Logos Mac version is going to be worth their effort. I have tested it since Alpha 1 and now I am on Beta 2. It has a way to go, in my opinion.)

Some call me bi-polar because I use both BW and Logos. Actually, I am tri-polar, because I have a Mac and Accordance too!

Dr. William Varner
The Master's College & Seminary

Thank you so much, Dr. Varner. I'll just have to become tri-polar, too! Life without Word in ALL forms is not worth living!

brainout
10-20-2008, 11:35 AM
If you have an older Windows machine (single-core Pentium under 2 gHz, and a minimum (under 1GB) of RAM), Logos will make your system crawl if you are running any other software. I have found myself waiting two or three minutes for a screen to refresh when Logos is doing a library search.

If you were born impatient (like I am), this could drive you nuts.

Well I got a Pentium 4, and yes I was born impatient. Trick would be to put Logos on another computer. I have 15 computers, five of which are windows (I prefer DOS), 2 being Pentium 4's; and all of them have mysterious (musterion, lol) problems. Thanks for the heads-up!