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vr8ce
03-12-2006, 07:32 PM
Any publication editors hanging around, or does someone know one? We've checked Chicago Manual of Style, but it obviously doesn't cover the Bible-specific things, and I don't have the SBL guide.

In a block quote, my understanding is that the reference goes after the quote, outside any punctuation, and with no punctuation of its own. So,

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believed in Him should have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Is that correct?

What about a run-in quote? Something like

This helps explain why God says, "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt." (v. 3) And, "The Egyptians..."
In this case, it's in a section talking about various aspects of Exodus 7, so I don't believe the full reference is needed (or at least looks odd, since several verses might be referenced in a couple of paragraphs). But, should the (v. 3) be inside the quotes or outside? Inside the final punctuation or outside? Does it need punctuation itelf, e.g. (v. 3.). The possibilities seem to be endless.

... land of Egypt (v. 3)." And...
... land of Egypt. (v. 3)" And...
... land of Egypt." (v. 3.) And...
... land of Egypt." (v. 3). And...
... land of Egypt." (v. 3) And...
What about when you're just referring to a verse, or ask a question and want to give them the verse containing the answer? For example,

What was different about the third plague as it related to Pharoah's magicians? (v. 18)
This from a section on chapter 8 (as above). Should that (v. 18) be inside the question mark or outside?

What about pointing them to a reference?

How do we change from being quick in the wrong things and slow in the right ones to the opposite? (See Romans 12:1-2.)
Should the parentheses be inside the question mark? (If so, I assume the "See" should be "see"?) Does the parentheses need its own punctuation?

I've checked several books I have here for examples, and I haven't been able to get a clear picture (i.e. they're inconsistent). Which leads me to believe it might not matter as long as we are consistent. :) But, if there's a documented way to do it, we'd certainly prefer to follow it.

Thanks for your help!

Vince

Ben Spackman
03-12-2006, 08:48 PM
I can't remember, but you can download the SBL Handbook of Style from the SBL site, http://www.sbl-site.org/Publications/PublishingWithSBL/SBLHS.pdf

vr8ce
03-12-2006, 09:28 PM
I can't remember, but you can download the SBL Handbook of Style from the SBL site, http://www.sbl-site.org/Publications/PublishingWithSBL/SBLHS.pdf
Thanks, Ben, but clicking on the link just gives a "The system cannot find the file specified." error. I poked around on the web site a bit and it appears it's only available to members, and I'm not one.

pingpongjedi
03-12-2006, 09:33 PM
I have it and can email it, but can't upload it due to size. PM me with your info if you like.

vr8ce
03-13-2006, 08:56 AM
I have it and can email it, but can't upload it due to size. PM me with your info if you like.
Thanks for the offer, but I'm guessing if they're only making it available to members on the web site, they only mean for members to have it. Since the associate dues are only $35, I'm perfectly willing to join, but the question is: does the document address all of the above questions? Thanks!

pingpongjedi
03-13-2006, 09:33 AM
I'm glad you checked that out. I did not join, but cannot remember where I got the document. I must have downloaded it from somewhere else.

You may want to check out Roy Ciampa's home page for resources: http://home.comcast.net/~rciampa/. This was posted in the thread http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104&highlight=ciampa

Trajan
03-14-2006, 10:03 AM
Vince,

I think these two examples are what you are looking for:


4 . 1 . 7 F I N A L P U N C T U A T I O N F O R B L O C K Q U O T A T I O N S
Quoted matter of five or more lines should generally be set off from the rest
of the text in a block quotation. Scripture and other primary texts set off in
this manner should conclude with punctuation, followed by the citation in
parentheses:
Thus says the Lord GOD: In the first month, on the first day of the month, you
shall take a young bull without blemish, and purify the sanctuary. The priest
shall take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of
the temple, the four corners of the ledge of the altar, and the posts of the gate
of the inner court. You shall do the same on the seventh day of the month for
anyone who has sinned through error or ignorance; so you shall make atonement
for the temple. (Ezek 45:18–20)

and


All occurrences of biblical books in parentheses and footnotes
should be abbreviated. Authors citing more than one translation of the
Bible must indicate which translation is used in a particular citation. When
this citation is in parentheses, a comma is not needed to separate the citation
and the abbreviation of the translation, as is indicated in the fourth example
below.
Right: The passage in 1 Cor 5 is often considered crucial.
The passage, 1 Cor 5:6, is often considered crucial.
First Corinthians 5:6 is a crucial text.
“Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole
batch of dough?" (1 Cor 5:6 NRSV).
Wrong: 1 Cor 5:6 is a crucial text.
1 Corinthians 5:6 is a crucial text.

That is at least what the SBLHS says. But I am not sure that I need to follow exactly a Guide that tells me that "The assignment of gender to God is likewise best avoided." UGH.

vr8ce
03-16-2006, 01:01 AM
Vince,
I think these two examples are what you are looking for:
<snip>
That is at least what the SBLHS says. But I am not sure that I need to follow exactly a Guide that tells me that "The assignment of gender to God is likewise best avoided." UGH.
Thanks! I broke down and bought the hardback and it got here today. I read it through tonight, and I saw those two sections, but they don't really answer the most uncertain of my questions, and that is what to do with these:

What about a run-in quote? Something like
This helps explain why God says, "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt." (v. 3) And, "The Egyptians..."
In this case, it's in a section talking about various aspects of Exodus 7, so I don't believe the full reference is needed (or at least looks odd, since several verses might be referenced in a couple of paragraphs). But, should the (v. 3) be inside the quotes or outside? Inside the final punctuation or outside? Does it need punctuation itelf, e.g. (v. 3.). The possibilities seem to be endless.
... land of Egypt (v. 3)." And...
... land of Egypt. (v. 3)" And...
... land of Egypt." (v. 3.) And...
... land of Egypt." (v. 3). And...
... land of Egypt." (v. 3) And...

The other example was a verse was referred to but not quoted.

What was different about the third plague as it related to Pharoah's magicians? (v. 18)
I didn't see anything in the book that addressed either of those issues.

I believe in the latter one, the reference should go before the final punctuation, i.e. ... Pharoah's magicians (v.18)? But I'm not sure.

The case of the partial quote is worse. The third example you posted ("Do you...") would imply that the fourth option above is correct, i.e.
... land of Egypt." (v. 3). And...
But that looks really odd to me.

Any other thoughts? Any editors out there?

Thanks!

Vince

frdee
03-16-2006, 03:16 AM
Vince,

For the run in quote:
This helps explain why God says, "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt" (v. 3).

For any direct citation within the body of the work, not a block quotation, the verse reference is placed after the inverted commas and before the following punctuation mark, in your case a fullstop.


As to the question which includes a reference, your inclinations were correct:
What was different about the third plague as it related to Pharoah's magicians (v. 18)? Some would suggest that the ......

If you place this outside of the question mark, with no following punctuation mark, it is not clear (grammatically) to which sentence it belongs, the prior or the following.

The SBL example is not particularly helpful as one would rarely find such a quotation standing separate from a lead in or outside of a list.

Thus:
It comes as no surprise when Paul follows up with a question, “Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?" (1 Cor 5:6 NRSV).

Or:
Three times in a short space questions are posed: “Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?" (1 Cor 5:6 NRSV); "second question here?" (ref); and "third question here?" (ref).


On a side note, the problem that I find with your example of a "run in quote" is that you then begin the next sentence with "And." You could connect two statements by God through a simple "and." Otherwise, if you have multiple quotations, you could use a list. The problem as it stands is that it is not grammatically clear that God is the speaking subject of the second sentence (even though it is logically clear).


Damian

vr8ce
03-16-2006, 08:32 AM
Excellent,Damian, thank you very much!

vr8ce
03-18-2006, 08:10 PM
For the run in quote:
This helps explain why God says, "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt" (v. 3). Damian, could you direct me to a reference for this (I couldn't find it in SBL) so I could read more about it? I'm really weak (obviously) on all this, and I'd like to understand it better.

Second, the quote above is a complete sentence, but the closing punctuation is outside the quotation marks. What if there are multiple sentences in the verse(s)? Does the last closing punctuation still occur outside the quotation marks?
This helps explain why God says, "This is the first sentence of the verse. This is the second one" (v. 3).
Is that still correct?


As to the question which includes a reference, your inclinations were correct:
What was different about the third plague as it related to Pharoah's magicians (v. 18)? Some would suggest that the ...... What about listing several verses for them to review?
Does that mean it is wrong, according to Scripture? (see Gen 1:1, Exod 1:1, Mark 1:1, Rev 1:1)
Waiting the closing punctuation (in this case a question mark) for all of those references seems iffy to me.

Thanks again!