PDA

View Full Version : Critical Apparatus?



MortenJensen
01-25-2006, 03:18 PM
Hi all
I was hoping that BW 7 would feature the full Nestle Aland critical apparatus (like one of its competitors). Am I right that it is not?

Why is that? For schorlarly purposes it is badly needed!

Morten

Joe Fleener
01-25-2006, 03:51 PM
Hi all
I was hoping that BW 7 would feature the full Nestle Aland critical apparatus (like one of its competitors). Am I right that it is not?

Why is that? For schorlarly purposes it is badly needed!

Morten

Contact the German Bible Society with that question?

The NA27 apparatus is under copyright by GBS. It seems that initially that had some kind of exclusive contract w/ the competitor you mention.

Recently Accordance announced they are making it available. However, the licensing fee (from what I understand) is ridiculous.

[Actually, from what I hear GBS has something like doubled the licensing fee for all their databases! Which is incredible considering the data has not changed.]

BibleWorks will offer:

CNTTS Critical Apparatus
Covering the New Testament with 50 or more witnesses for the text. Includes free updates as new portions are published. Available first quarter of 2006.

See more here: http://www.nobts.edu/CNTTS/CurrentProjects.html

Ben Spackman
01-25-2006, 03:51 PM
Licensing issues, pure and simple.

MortenJensen
01-25-2006, 04:36 PM
Sounds really interesting with CNTTS.
Will it be a born part of BW 7 or a licenced add-on?
Also, in short, how will it work compared to the critical apparatus?
Morten

Michael Hanel
01-25-2006, 04:48 PM
BibleWorks will offer:

CNTTS Critical Apparatus
Covering the New Testament with 50 or more witnesses for the text. Includes free updates as new portions are published. Available first quarter of 2006.

See more here: http://www.nobts.edu/CNTTS/CurrentProjects.html

Also consider the Swanson series that BW is offering for an amazing price as an add-on. As anyone knows, not even the NA critical apparatus is the end-all-be-all. And since the German Bible Society has had a problem apparently with sharing this scholarship, it's an awesome deal that BW has worked out arrangements for these other resources, not to mention the Tiscendorf critical material which comes standard in the box.

MBushell
01-25-2006, 06:01 PM
Hi Morten and others,

The GBS apparatus is a touchy and difficult issue. I'll tell you what I can and just ask you to pray for a better resolution than we have been able to achieve.

A couple of years ago the GBS published the apparatus exclusively in Logos format, in spite of pleas from numerous sources that they make the information available more widely. They told us that their decision was firm. So we embarked on a program to try to marshal other resources in order to meet the needs of our users. Some of those are in this release or will be ready for release in very short order. We beleve that, although not a replacement for the GBS apparatus, what we have announced and some things that we have not announced, will provide a set of resources that are in many ways (though not all of course) better than the GBS apparatus. Tischendorf (greatly improved in this release), the CNTTS database (which will grow over time), the fantastic Swanson volumes, Comfort and Barett, and some other things that I cannot mention, together provide quite an impressive collection. Don't sell them short. And due to the generosity of Dr.Swanson and his colleagues we are bringing the Swanson materials to you at a really incredible price. And the GBS did in fact permit us to provide the Metzger commentary to our users (for which we are thankful).

Back to the GBS. At SBL this year we were approached by the GBS and told that there had been a change in policy with regard to the apparatus. They offered to permit us to develop a GBS module containing their various original language texts and apparati. That sounded great and we were initially very excited. However, they wanted us to develop the module and basically turn it over to them to package and sell as a GBS product. They were not willing to license the material to us. We would not even be permitted to distribute it on our CDs or provide support to our users. That and the fact that their financial requirements were, in our view, unreasonable, made an agreement impossible. We made the decision that agreeing to terms which were required, was not in the best long term interests of our users. We would be more than happy to incorporate the GBS apparati into our product, at reasonable royalty rates, but this is something they have chosen not to permit. The bottom line is that we are committed to meeting the needs of our users in this area, but until there are policy changes at GBS, the materials will come from some other place than Germany. Please continue to pray that the GBS will change its mind and pray for us as we seek others sources for this kind of material.

God bless,
Mike

MortenJensen
01-26-2006, 04:03 AM
Dear Mike

Thanks for your clarifying answar. Yes, I really see the problem now, and I guess there is not more you can do about it now.

The three add-ons are also of great value, CNTTS, Swanson, Comfort & Barret.

I am a little worried about the cost for all these add-ons. These three are 175 $ together. I guess there is also not much to do about that either, but have you considered to pack them together at a reduced price?

Thanks
Morten

Michael Hanel
01-26-2006, 09:47 AM
Dear Mike

Thanks for your clarifying answar. Yes, I really see the problem now, and I guess there is not more you can do about it now.

The three add-ons are also of great value, CNTTS, Swanson, Comfort & Barret.

I am a little worried about the cost for all these add-ons. These three are 175 $ together. I guess there is also not much to do about that either, but have you considered to pack them together at a reduced price?

Thanks
Morten

I just visited Amazon and saw that there was the Reuben Swanson 4pack for the Gospels for 89$. Now compare this to the price BibleWorks is offering which is half that and BibleWorks is including all future copies for no further price. I know this stuff adds up, but it costs BibleWorks money to pay for licensing and software companies can't always get the best prices on that stuff, but I am sure they are passing on the best price they can. The truth of the matter is these resources are not cheap and they are specialized. Not every BW user needs all of this textual critical data, but to those who are into this stuff, they realize that it will be a great investment for their work.

MBushell
01-26-2006, 06:40 PM
I just visited Amazon and saw that there was the Reuben Swanson 4pack for the Gospels for 89$. Now compare this to the price BibleWorks is offering which is half that and BibleWorks is including all future copies for no further price. I know this stuff adds up, but it costs BibleWorks money to pay for licensing and software companies can't always get the best prices on that stuff, but I am sure they are passing on the best price they can. The truth of the matter is these resources are not cheap and they are specialized. Not every BW user needs all of this textual critical data, but to those who are into this stuff, they realize that it will be a great investment for their work.

These prices are set by the copyright holders. You have to keep in mind that neither CNTTS nor Swanson are completely finished. They have to receive a decent return to continue the work and that is not easy on specialty items like this. Most people who buy BibleWorks don't use (and really don't need) the critical apparati. All things considered, these are fair prices. Maybe after the work is completed prices can drop. We do everything we can to lower prices.

Mike

MBushell
01-26-2006, 06:44 PM
Dear Mike

Thanks for your clarifying answar. Yes, I really see the problem now, and I guess there is not more you can do about it now.

The three add-ons are also of great value, CNTTS, Swanson, Comfort & Barret.

I am a little worried about the cost for all these add-ons. These three are 175 $ together. I guess there is also not much to do about that either, but have you considered to pack them together at a reduced price?

Thanks
Morten

Oops. I posted my answer to the wrong person. See my previous post.

Mike

stclark81
01-29-2006, 09:54 PM
I'm not really familiar with the add-ons under discussion here--do they cover OT also, or just NT?

Also, a few months ago I emailed the BW staff about this same issue, and was directed to GBS. I emailed them and got two responses--the first was in German, which I do not read. Apparently someone then figured that since my email was in English, they probably ought to reply in English, but the second response wasn't very helpful, either. I'd asked if they had plans to make their apparati available to BibleWorks users, and the response I got was basically, "no, sorry, now leave us alone," (not in so many words, of course, but that was the general tone).

Of course, the apparatus for the current BHS is subject to a fair bit of criticism, anyway, so I'm not certain that it's all that great a loss.

Shalom.