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Ben Spackman
01-21-2006, 07:27 PM
Mike sent an email to the beta testers today- Beta testing is done, the muzzle is off the testers, and we're free to talk about it. I assume that meant on-line too, which is great, cause I can't say enough good about it. :D

According to Mike's last email, the files for BW 7 have gone to the cd-producer, and it should be available soon. They'll make an official anouncement next week.

It's got some major changes that take a little getting used to. I complained at first, but over the two months or so of beta testing, I have grudgingly come around to realizing that they were right to make them. I think it's great!

My favorite new stuff-
1) The new notes/editor is everything you've dreamed of. Keep chapter AND verse notes simultaneously. Make pop-up scripture references and hyperlinks to the web, or other files or programs. Insert pictures. Type in Unicode.

2) Grammars! There are a bunch of new grammatical resources for Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek. Some are standard (like Metzger's textual commentary on the Greek New Testament) and others are new modules (like Blass and Degrunner's NT Grammar).

3) Every reference in the grammars, lexicons, etc., is a pop-up now, and you can customize two sets of Bibles to pop-up when you mouse over the reference (ie. I can mouse over and pop up the WTT, NRS, and KJV, or hold shift, mouse over and pop up WTT, LXT, TAR, etc.) This makes the lexicons very powerful. Great stuff.

4) Tabs- The command center now has 12 tabs on it, each one maintining its own search, verse, and version history. Forget new results windows. This is much much better.

5)External links- You can edit the right-click menus and send information out of the program. This means I now have a two-click process to open commentaries to a particular verse in other programs. I have a two-click process to look up a KJV word in Webster's 1828 and the Oxford English dictionary on-line.

There's tons of other new stuff. New databases, new tools, new functionality, ease of use.

In short, it's great and it's virtually here.
Begin drooling now :eek:

Joe Fleener
01-21-2006, 09:39 PM
I have heard of "letting the cat out of the bag," but this is more like letting Aslan loose! (I couldn't help the Aslan connection I just finished reading The Last Battle to my kids tonight!).

I had the priviledge of being one ofthe Beta Testers as well and all I can say is :D! Oh my, this is going to be awesome!

There will be much more to say in the near future.

I think the guys @ BW will have 7.0 stuff out of the website early next week, keep checking.

They will have nice PDF listing all the stuff along with several Flash demo videos.

A new era has begun!

Michael Hanel
01-21-2006, 10:41 PM
I would list things in it, but I think people will be shocked at how much new stuff there is in BW7 (how's that for cruel?). Actually, you might want to get out a paper and pencil. I think there might be more new in BW7 than was previously in the program before.

Oh did I mention Philo? Of course you knew that was coming already :)
Greek diagrams of the NT? Man, the list will go on. Stay tuned for next week :)

Kevin Ahronson
01-22-2006, 08:03 AM
Just when I was convincing myself that I probably wouldn't have to bother upgrading this time round !

I was kinda hoping that BW7 wasn't going to be any major step forward over BW6...

...looks like the credit card is in for another hammering :o

SCSaunders
01-22-2006, 09:49 AM
Sounds like the BW crew has outdone themselves - again. I won't be passing this up.

It's got some major changes that take a little getting used to. I complained at first, but over the two months or so of beta testing, I have grudgingly come around to realizing that they were right to make them. I think it's great! Ben, It's all good. If it took a Beta-Tester two months, It'll probably take this old dog two years; but I'm up for learning some new tricks.

Dan Phillips
01-22-2006, 11:08 AM
How about the issue of converting existing user-generated comments, notes, from the Constant Crasher version to the new improved version?

Michael Hanel
01-22-2006, 02:20 PM
How about the issue of converting existing user-generated comments, notes, from the Constant Crasher version to the new improved version?

Shouldn't be a problem. I stopped using the editor in BW6 because it was so unreliable. The BW7 editor not only has auto-save, but I've not once had it crash on me and I've been doing all the things I used it to do in BW6 plus more. I love it. Not only that you can convert the Greek into Unicode making your notes much more transferrable than before. All in all, BW7 does a great job to take a step forward. Not everything is Unicode yet because not all computers are yet good with dealing w Unicode, but for those who want to use it, the steps are there.

For instance. I just finished reading book one of Plato's republic. I used the editor to keep notes as I was reading it. I have 43 pages of notes and not once did I have a crash happen while notating. This included functions like copying from Mozilla's FireFox and Copying from the LSJ dictionary in BW as well as old fashioned typing. The proof is in the pudding they say.

Really my only complaint now is that I need another monitor because BW7 has so much info at your finger tips and you want access to it always at once you may find you'll be upgrading to a bigger monitor with BW as well just to get the most for your money ;) And the BW folks have worked really really hard to integrate all of the material (grammars, lexicons, etc.). Did I mention the ability to do cross-searching in Greek between Philo, Josephus, and the Greek NT? That either was not in BW6 or very difficult to construct. Now it's just a click (ok, so it might be two).

alan1979
01-22-2006, 04:06 PM
any idea the price to upgrade from 6.0 to 7.0?

alan

jdarlack
01-22-2006, 04:46 PM
I can't help but to chime in on this one. I don't know how much the upgrade will cost, but I know that it will be well worth it. With version 7, BibleWorks will be the ONLY biblical software package that comes with Philo, Josephus, the Apostolic Fathers and the LXX/NT all in morphologically tagged format as a part of the base package! In every other database out there, you have to pay extra for the basics! In BW7 they come with the program right out of the box!

For those of you who are itching to get your own tools into a format that BibleWorks can use, they have also made a way for users to create their own CHM help file based resources that will integrate with the Lexical & Grammatical Help just like any other CHM help file resource created by BibleWorks (e.g., the Waltke & O'Connor or the Wallace grammars).

Michael Hanel
01-22-2006, 05:23 PM
I can't help but to chime in on this one. I don't know how much the upgrade will cost, but I know that it will be well worth it. With version 7, BibleWorks will be the ONLY biblical software package that comes with Philo, Josephus, the Apostolic Fathers and the LXX/NT all in morphologically tagged format as a part of the base package! In every other database out there, you have to pay extra for the basics! In BW7 they come with the program right out of the box!


What's that? Play it again, Sam, play it again. Josephus, Philo, Apostolic Fathers, LXX and NT all Greek, all morphologically tagged, all part of the main program? Ah yes, that's why i love BW :)

Joe Fleener
01-22-2006, 07:35 PM
any idea the price to upgrade from 6.0 to 7.0?

alan

Upgrade from 6 to 7 = $150.00

Upgrade from 5 to 7 = $175.00

Full purchase of 7.0 = $349.00

Some will notice this being the first increase in price in over 10 years and it is a slight increase in that.

To be honest the program is worth much more and Mike and company deserve much more. They are true servants of the church!

Dan Phillips
01-23-2006, 07:39 AM
Shouldn't be a problem. I stopped using the editor in BW6 because it was so unreliable.

Thanks. So, you didn't convert any existing notes? I know many (myself included) are concerned as to how our existing notes will be converted/transferred into the New, Improved editor. You don't know,then?

Howbowchoo, Joe the Fleener?

Joe Fleener
01-23-2006, 08:16 AM
Thanks. So, you didn't convert any existing notes? I know many (myself included) are concerned as to how our existing notes will be converted/transferred into the New, Improved editor. You don't know,then?

Howbowchoo, Joe the Fleener?

Hi Dan,

Yes I converted Notes from BW 6.0 along with several waves of testing various note formats. I never found a problem.

For as long as I can remember the notes in BibleWorks have simply been RTF files with a .bww extension.

This is still the case. The notes are still RTF files, but the functions in the BW editor have been vastly upgraded and improved to take advantage of all the functionality within the RTF format.

This being the case there is no problem reading/converting old BW notes since they are still the same format.

Hope that makes sense.

tcblack
01-23-2006, 08:40 AM
The Beta period was great.
I've just got to let the cat a little further out and tell everyone to expect a modified default screen layout.
I've posted a screenshot (http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5091#post5091) in the "Cool New Screen Layouts" area.

More over there...

Michael Hanel
01-23-2006, 08:42 AM
Hi Dan,

Yes I converted Notes from BW 6.0 along with several waves of testing various note formats. I never found a problem.


Ditto. Even if BW changed formats (which as Joe said wasn't the case) notes would still be viewable through Word or any other editor that opens RTF files. It's to BW credit I think that their editor uses that format.

MBushell
01-23-2006, 04:56 PM
There is really no conversion process. Both are in RTF. The difference is that the 7 files are written in RTF by Microsoft instead of BibleWorks.

There is however a difference in the way Hebrew is handled. If you wrote sections of left-erapped Hebrew in the BW 6 editor, these sections will not come across as left-wrapped Hebrew. The new editor is based on the Microsoft Rich Edit control (like WordPad but geatly enhanced), which cannot do left-wrapped non-Unicode text. The new editor supports left-wrapped Hebrew, but ONLY in Unicode fonts (the SIL and SBL fonts come with BW7). This is the only real incompatibility between 6 and 7. It's an unfortunate price of progress but should not affect many people. If it is an issue for some, they will have to go in an manually insert line breaks in the Hebrew.

Mike

BigJayOneill
01-23-2006, 11:35 PM
Hey guys,

Will BW7 include an English translation of the Targumim?

Thanks:)

MBushell
01-24-2006, 08:05 AM
Hey guys,

Will BW7 include an English translation of the Targumim?

Thanks:)

Sorry, not yet. We do have English translations for the Qumran Mss (Biblical and Sectarian) in the works though, hopefully before the end of the year.

Mike

tfjern
01-24-2006, 08:40 AM
Sorry, not yet. We do have English translations for the Qumran Mss (Biblical and Sectarian) in the works though, hopefully before the end of the year.

Mike

Well, then, are you saying, Mike, there's no hope we might see English translations of the Targums (e.g., T&T Clarks' The Aramaic Bible) in BW7 before the end of this year?

MBushell
01-24-2006, 12:46 PM
Well, then, are you saying, Mike, there's no hope we might see English translations of the Targums (e.g., T&T Clarks' The Aramaic Bible) in BW7 before the end of this year?

Not saying that at all. But we don't have a license yet and we have a lot of things in the works with a small staff working on them.

Mike

jdarlack
01-24-2006, 01:44 PM
Well, then, are you saying, Mike, there's no hope we might see English translations of the Targums (e.g., T&T Clarks' The Aramaic Bible) in BW7 before the end of this year?I don't know if anyone will ever have the T&T Clark/Liturgical Press Aramaic Bible (http://http://www.litpress.org/Series.aspx?ID=17) any time soon in an electronic format! The volumes cost over $50 each! I can't imagine the electronic version licensing for much less. Perhaps Mike Bushell and the other folks at BW can work some magic, however!

That being said, are there any Aramaic scholars who would like to start a fresh translation? You would have the undying love and affection of your fellow BibleWorks users if you took on this project!

Michael Hanel
01-24-2006, 02:53 PM
Check out the bibleworks.com website. Here's the full list of new things. See if you can say them all in one breath ;)

http://www.bibleworks.com/content/new.html

jakemccarty
01-25-2006, 08:04 AM
Regarding the English translations of the Aramaic Bible, I think a much more valuable, yet far less expensive, option is to simply include Jastrow. I dont even think it is under copyright, and if it is, it is very inexpensive. I am not really sure how responsible it would be to simply use a translation without a dictionary in any case. (I hear echoes of my former preacher who used to say The Hebrew/Greek says this without being able to read the text well...). As far as I know, there are only a few schools that even teach enough Aramaic (e.g. at least 2 or more years) for a student to even be able to read the text well, and simply having the Aramaic text without a dictionary may not be the most helpful thing.

jdarlack
01-25-2006, 08:41 AM
Regarding the English translations of the Aramaic Bible, I think a much more valuable, yet far less expensive, option is to simply include Jastrow...I agree with you about Jastrow. I imagine that while the copyright would not be a problem, the scanning would be quite an expensive accomplishment. I was under the impression that the new Hendrickson edition would be newly typeset (which gave me hope that it would be available digitally soon). Alas, the new edition is merely a plate for plate reproduction (and enlargement) of the old Jastrow (Available in PDF Vol. 1 א-כ (http://library.case.edu/ksl/ecoll/books/jasdic00/jasdic00.html) ; Vol. 2 ל-ת (http://library.case.edu/ksl/ecoll/books/jasdic01/jasdic01.html)).

nalsop
01-25-2006, 09:13 AM
Check out the bibleworks.com website. Here's the full list of new things. See if you can say them all in one breath ;)

http://www.bibleworks.com/content/new.html

Does anynbody know: When we upgrade to ver 7, will need to pay again for unlocked modules we already own?

Nick

jdarlack
01-25-2006, 09:19 AM
Does anynbody know: When we upgrade to ver 7, will need to pay again for unlocked modules we already own?

NickNope, no need to worry. If you've purchased a module in the past, you will not need to upgrade the module or repay for it. You will only have to pay for the program upgrade and any NEW modules that you are after!

Joe Fleener
01-25-2006, 09:33 AM
Nope, no need to worry. If you've purchased a module in the past, you will not need to upgrade the module or repay for it. You will only have to pay for the program upgrade and any NEW modules that you are after!

Not only do you not have to pay for the modules again if you purchased them w/ say 5.0, but you will get the latest version of the modules you already own when you install the program.

For example the verse reference links from HALOT and BDAG have been greatly improved since they were released w/ 5.0 and even with the version for 6.0.

If you own those modules and upgrade to 7.0 you will get the 7.0 version of those modules without having to pay for them again!

Joe Fleener
01-25-2006, 10:28 AM
7.0 is now featured on the new BibleWorks website.

Check it all out!

www.bibleworks.com

James H. Tifft
01-26-2006, 02:19 AM
I'm using this Unicode fonts at present, for Hebrew Studies and having it in BW7 would sure make sense to me. I could do a lookup and copy directly to my e-mail program with out having to go to my "Unicorn Text Editor" first. Sure would save a bunch of time. I placed my order today. Looking forward to new things to play with.

I know I saw a discussion on here somewhere about that, I hope that was the decission.;)

Jim Tifft
San Antonio, Texas

Joe Fleener
01-26-2006, 05:50 AM
I'm using this Unicode fonts at present, for Hebrew Studies and having it in BW7 would sure make sense to me. I could do a lookup and copy directly to my e-mail program with out having to go to my "Unicorn Text Editor" first. Sure would save a bunch of time. I placed my order today. Looking forward to new things to play with.

I know I saw a discussion on here somewhere about that, I hope that was the decission.;)

Jim Tifft
San Antonio, Texas

Oh yes, you will like 7.0 for this. All the font conversion will be done for you.

Keep in mind, BibleWorks itself will still be using BW fonts (i.e. what you will see in the Browse Window, etc.). However, the editor is fully compatible with Unicode and you can easily set a couple of options to export all fonts to Unicode when you copy text from BibleWorks to other applications.

James H. Tifft
01-26-2006, 01:08 PM
Thank you Joe,

I'm just getting started in this part of my studies, and I've spent quit a bit of time setting up the ability to do this. So this means I can use this tool to do the job and cut the time needed to do it as well. Great Improvement indeed. Helps moving from Hebrew to English and back. At my age that's a real thing too.

Jim T.:)

Jonathan Wass
01-26-2006, 01:38 PM
I know in previous threads the concept of whether or not passage divisions would be included in version 7.0 was brought up. Will these be included in the new update?

Philip Brown
01-26-2006, 08:35 PM
If by "passage divisions" you mean things like poetic formatting, the answer is negative at this point. I haven't heard any discussion of implementing this feature, but you never know. It's often the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

Ruben Gomez
01-28-2006, 02:27 PM
Could someone please explain a little bit about the new feature that allows users to build KWIC and collocation tables? How does it work, what does it look like, what are its advantages over other types of searches, etc. Some screenshots would also be useful, since the intro video does not really show much.

Thanks,

Rubén Gómez

Michael Hanel
01-28-2006, 02:42 PM
Could someone please explain a little bit about the new feature that allows users to build KWIC and collocation tables? How does it work, what does it look like, what are its advantages over other types of searches, etc. Some screenshots would also be useful, since the intro video does not really show much.

Thanks,

Rubén Gómez

From the BibleWorks help the KWIC module is described thus:


A Key Word in Context (KWIC) Concordance is a listing of all the words that occur in a version shown with their immediate context. The KWIC module in BibleWorks enables you to build KWIC lists for any word or series of words in any Bible version. You can specify how many words either side of the specified words will be shown. The word itself will be shown in red and any surrounding words that had to cross a verse boundary to meet the specified context limits will be shown in gray. A collocation table is a listing of all the words in the immediate context of the key word listed by frequency and distance from the key word. Together the KWIC list and the collocation table provide very useful tools for studying the grammatical and topical context of words.



It's a quick and powerful way to look up a specific word and have an analysis of what words occur before and after the given word (as well as many words before and many words after). It's a powerful little feature that can do much more than simply searching for a word would have done from the command line because now you're ready to do statistical analysis on the fly whereas you would have had to weed through all of those words on your own before KWIC.

Ruben Gomez
01-28-2006, 03:04 PM
Michael,

Thank you. It seems to me that you can currently configure version 6 so that hits appear in context, so I am still unsure what's new about this. That's why I was asking for a screenshot. Looking at the syntax and the display would probably clear up things... Maybe I'm just tired and can't see something obvious.

Rubén Gómez

Michael Hanel
01-28-2006, 03:19 PM
Michael,

Thank you. It seems to me that you can currently configure version 6 so that hits appear in context, so I am still unsure what's new about this. That's why I was asking for a screenshot. Looking at the syntax and the display would probably clear up things... Maybe I'm just tired and can't see something obvious.

Rubén Gómez

If you email me I can send you some screen shots. Attachments are too bulky on the forums. You can show version 6 to SHOW context. You cannot use version six to ANALYZE context. Furthermore KWIC shows words through VERSE BREAKS which the command line searching would not have done. Third, "A collocation table is a listing of all the words in the immediate context of the key word listed by frequency and distance from the key word."

Do you see how all of those are new features that would not be able to be done by the command line contexting?

Joseph B. Modica
01-29-2006, 06:02 PM
A quick question for our beta-testers: Might we be able to print from the synopsis feature in BW7? Any advice would be appreciated. Many thanks.

Philip Brown
01-30-2006, 07:56 AM
Hi, Joseph,

If you mean will it print in columns, the answer is no. You can always paste the material into a table in a word processor.