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doc_dave
11-04-2005, 04:42 AM
This must have to do with the Word List Manager, but although I'm reasonably happy using the ASE, I've not yet ventured into WLM territory....

Here's the goal: I want to be able to identify Hebrew verbs that do NOT occur in the Qal, rather only in the Piel or Hiphil or whatever. Ideally, then, I would like to identify verbs that have a Qal:Piel, or Qal:Hiphil, or Piel:Hiphil contrast. Perhaps you can see the direction of my thinking.

Any help on how to perform this kind of search in BWks? I'm a bit stymied.

Todah rabbah!
David.

Joe Fleener
11-04-2005, 08:57 AM
Here is an example to get you started.

You are correct this is a job for the Word List Manager.

1. Go to tools - Word List Manager

2. Click on Load or Generate Word List

3. Select WTM as your version

4. Select "Load words from a Bible version

5. In the "Filter words using" box enter: *@vq* (for Qal stems)

6. Uncheck "Keep morph codes"

7. Check "Keep Greek accents and Hewbrew volwel points"

8. Unckec "Keep Hebrew accents"

9. Click "Create List"

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10. Select "Secondary Word List" once the Primary List is complete.

11. Click on "Load or Generate Word List" and follow all the same steps as above. However, in step #5 change *@vq* to *@vp* (for Piel stem)

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12. With both lists populated do the following.

13. Sort both lists alphabetically (under the sort menu option)

14. Now under the select menu option you have a few options.

14a. "Select Words Common to Both Lists" will highlight those words which words which have both a Qal and Piel form.

14b. "Select Words Not Common to Both Lists" will do the following:

14b.1. The Main List will have highlighted those Qal stems that do not have a Piel form in the WTM.

14b.2. The Secondary List will have highlighted those Piel stems that do not have a Qal form in the WTM.

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From this point you can save you lists and do all kinds of fun stuff.

Hope this gets you off to a good start.

doc_dave
11-05-2005, 06:16 AM
Thanks Joe -- I've happily created a "This verb does not occur in Qal but does occur in Piel" list, and a "This verb does not occur in Qal but does occur in Hiphil" list, and a "These verbs have no Qal, but occur in BOTH Piel AND Hiphil" list. There's 30, in case anyone cares. If you read Chapter 21 of Waltke & O'Connor, this kind of thing gets quite interesting. The (clear!) help was much appreciated!

Best wishes from blustery Edinburgh, David.

doc_dave
11-05-2005, 06:51 AM
A little post-script... (As if I wasn't having enough fun already!):

I wondered what difference Step 7 in Joe's 14-or-so-Step Plan made. I created primary and secondary lists looking for all niphals, the primary without checking "Keep Greek accents and Hebrew vowel points, the secondary with that box checked. Primary list had 415 words and 4119 hits, the secondary had 417 words and 4119 hits. Odd. I did a "select not common words" thing. Of course, all BGDKPT-initial verbs were different, and one III-He verb had a mappiq version. But it looks like DXX in 2Sa 14.14 is indexed without D-dagesh, and the Jer 23.12 version is (rightly) indexed with a dagesh in the initial D. Is this a candidate for a "typo"?? (I'm using 5.0.034a at home, btw; we have BWks 6x at work.)

jakemccarty
11-05-2005, 08:06 AM
Thanks Joe -- I've happily created a "This verb does not occur in Qal but does occur in Piel" list, and a "This verb does not occur in Qal but does occur in Hiphil" list, and a "These verbs have no Qal, but occur in BOTH Piel AND Hiphil" list. There's 30, in case anyone cares. If you read Chapter 21 of Waltke & O'Connor, this kind of thing gets quite interesting. The (clear!) help was much appreciated!

Best wishes from blustery Edinburgh, David.

Did you do any comparative work to see if it these lists have anything to do with the root, rather than being simply happenstance or based upon the often false MT pointing?

Could you reverse the list? Qal but not Piel and Qal but not Hiphil? For Qpassives?

doc_dave
11-05-2005, 11:03 AM
Did you do any comparative work to see if it these lists have anything to do with the root, rather than being simply happenstance or based upon the often false MT pointing?
I've done no work on the list yet; somewhere there must exist other such to check these results against. I have attached (I think!) the .IEL file with my results, such as they are, which you can import and ponder.


Could you reverse the list? Qal but not Piel and Qal but not Hiphil? For Qpassives?
It all looks pretty straightforward given the "select" options that BWks offers. Joe's instructions are excellent -- go for it!