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alan1979
10-11-2005, 09:47 PM
Ok, I am sure I just need to brush up my greek, but I am confused.

In Mark 5:25 it reads "Kai. gunh. ou=sa evn r`u,sei ai[matoj dw,deka e;th" my question is, how do would you translate ou=sa?

I would appreciate if those who translate it can explain why they translated it the way do. To make matters easier, its a verb participle present active nominative feminine singular.

Thank You :)

alan

alan1979
10-11-2005, 10:49 PM
Ok, so what would everybodies wooden translation of this verse be "Kai. gunh. ou=sa evn r`u,sei ai[matoj dw,deka e;th""

Mine would be, "And a woman being in a blood disease for 12 years"
However, this doesn't seem right, so where do the new american standard translators get the "who had"?

Alan

Gontroppo
10-12-2005, 12:12 AM
NASB "who had" because, after meeting Jesus, she ain't got it no more!

David McKay
www.davidmckay.info (http://www.davidmckay.info)
[with 2 photos of grandson, if interested]

Michael Hanel
10-12-2005, 12:15 AM
This really isn't appropriate for the BW discussion. You can ask it on the non-BW forum or else check out the BGreek mailing list (http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/)

If you have access to a good lexicion like BDAG (e.g. through BibleWorks) you might be helped more. The verb eimi can have several meanings and one of them means to be in a state or condition of. That is the meaning that is being expressed here. so the woman was in a state of being in the flowing of blood. Now you can say that in some form of English somewhere, but the easier way to express that state or condition was to say she had been living under this condition of having the flow of blood.

Your problem is largely because you're looking for a very literal (wooden) translation and even though the NAS is one of the closest in that respect, you're not going to find much out there in Bibles that will give a translation like you're looking for. Brush up on these questions w the help of lexicons and grammar books.

alan1979
10-12-2005, 12:15 AM
David, I understand that if I am just reading but with the greek text, how did the translators come to that translation?

alan

Gontroppo
10-12-2005, 06:25 AM
Alan, Because that is one way to express the meaning of the Greek in English.

David McKay
www.davidmckay.info:p

Dan Phillips
10-12-2005, 08:35 PM
Alan, sorry if you feel that your interesting question was dismissed. Persevere! You don't need to make everyone happy!

It is an interesting question. In looking, I noticed something that had never popped out to me before.

Check it out: there are in fact (by my count) seven participles in vv. 25-27, before we finally meet the first finite verb, h[yato, in v. 27!

So my initial remark would be that this is first in a series of participles setting the stage, showing us more specifically what kind of woman it was who touched Jesus' garment from behind. The point is that she touched His garment; the weight of the point is felt in the depiction of who it is who touched His garment, and was healed.

So here's a (mostly) bleedingly-wooden translation of the passage, participles bolded: "And a woman being in a flow of blood twelve years and having suffered many things by many physicians and having spent all her resources and having profited nothing, but by contrast rather coming to be worse off, having heard concerning Jesus, having come in the crowd behind -- touched His garment."

Matthew's and Luke's accounts are terser, and don't feature the chain of participles.

Don't know whether I answered your question or not -- but thanks for making me notice that!

alan1979
10-12-2005, 08:50 PM
Dan,

Thank you so much for your response. WOW, that really adds weight to the verse and truly helps give meaning to this woman and her circumstances, both before touching and after touching Jesus garment.


alan

paul
10-29-2005, 10:45 AM
i appreciated alan's question and the excellent final response.